Cupcake vs Egg 03

[cupcake68]

Oh OK!

 

Am I not at risk of missing the defence deadline if I do that? I do not want to find out they have got the judgement because I didn't submit in time!!

 

I will write as you suggest and send it special delivery to be sure they get it before 15th July.

 

Thanks again

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

Hi Guys

 

I have received my DSIR request from Egg today.

 

There is still no agreement in it!!!

 

Also on first glance the statements they have sent are not the same as the statements I received from Brian Carter last week!! They are laid out slightly differently.

 

I will have a closer look later.

 

Cupcake

[gh2008]

layout of the statements is immaterial - each piece of documentation is judged on the material content. So, for a statement that would be your name the creditor's name and most importantly the financial stuff.

 

Check the 'account log' for any discrepancies with dates and figures and things.

Look for the DN info and any TN info

 

The previous advice is still valid IMHO - they have not complied yet.

 

So write to them and copy the Court, detailing the request, what has been sent and what is STILL outstanding.

 

See what happens, if nothing then you can make an N244 app for disclosure (and 'proper' re-pleading of POC?). Should be a £40 without a hearing app.

You can use lots of statements from CPR as your 'evidence' on the app (Pre-Action conduct & Part 16 are a good start)

[cupcake68]

Thanks GH

 

No agreement, no copy of DN and no TN included in pack but I will look at log to see if they are mentioned.

 

Also noticed my first CCA request has hand written note re £1 fee included so their recent excuse for not sending it, when FOS told them they should, because I had not paid £1 fee was a load of rubbish!

 

Cupcake

[gh2008]

 

I *always* recommend SARing a creditor - very rarely does it not turn up all sorts of useful info

[Mightyacorn]

I too have received my SAR from Egg, I've got two agreement's in mine, my loan and the card, however they've only sent one set of statements (for the card), no sign of any DN's, and the history file they've sent me doesn't make any mention of them at all. Written back asking for missing docs, and asking why no mention of DNs. Also it is worth noting the've only sent me statements from the time I took out the Egg loan, nothing from before.

[cupcake68]

Hi Guys

 

I have sent the letter to BC informing them of what I am still waiting for from them before I can submit my defence.

 

I have had a good luck at the SDAR received from Egg.

 

There are a couple of things I have noted but I'm not sure any of them are good enough to defend this case!!

 

There is a letter in SDAR dated June 09 stating that by now I should have recieved a letter enclosing my agreement and as such they were closing my complaint.

 

I did not receive this letter!!

 

There is also no copy of the letter they mention or any copy of my agreement within my SDAR! However there is a log on screenshot dated July 09 saying CCA letter sent.

 

There is also no copy of my letter putting the account into dispute in April 09 because they had not complied with my request. Although there is the letter I attached to the back of it (Telephone Harrassment letter). It looks as if they have scrapped that part of the letter. (it even shows the recorded delivery barcode on the Telephone Harrassment letter!!)

 

What does DRSD 10 days mean on their log? It is entered in the screen log under DN issued.

 

There is no copy of the DN notice but I am sure I have read they do not keep copies so no real surprise there.

 

As well as the screenshot log there is also a contact history. I cannot see any mention in that of CCA letter sent in July 09.

 

In the complaint log it shows my initial complaint opened in May 09, It then says "opening code: unenforceable". Is that because the account in dispute letter I sent said the agreement was unenforceable because they had not comlied?

 

Also in this complaint log they state that because I did not sign my CCA request they had not sent cca yet. Then, under action taken it says CCA sent 13/05/10. So it would appear from this that they did not send it in July 09 afterall?!!

 

Also on this sheet it says "closure code pre 01/07/10 Unenforceable Agreement (card, product policy, Agreement/T's & C's breach)

 

What does that mean?

 

The amounts on the statements tally between BC and Egg but there is a strange calculation of arrears in the statements that BC sent....

 

261209 statement shows Min payment due £3003.00. Next statement dated 020210 shows min payment due £1124.73 although there is no sign of credit or payment on account??

 

The only other thing is the discrepencies between the statement details that came from Brian Carter and the ones from Egg. These are not to do with amounts. The statements from BC dated May 09, July 09, September 09, November 09, February 10 and April 10 (ie every other month) show the next payment due date as June 2010.

 

Any advice would be appreciated again.

 

Thank you

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

One more thing!!

 

I received a termination notice dated 29th July 2009.

 

The log on the screenshot for 290709 says ""*GG2KR08 NM-016 = F PREV STATUS = A

next line for 290709 says "CRT RO BED CARD DN Q DN NOT SATISFIED NO PAYMENT RCVD"

next line say "454 LETTER SENT F66 STATUS APPLIED DRSD 1 DAY SWITCHED"

next line says "INTEREST CANCELLED DD"

 

Does any of this mean a termination request was sent?

 

Cupcake

[Mightyacorn]

Cupcake,

Any developments?

 

MA

[cupcake68]

Hi MA

 

No news as yet!!

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

Still nothing more from BC.

 

I have just spoken to court and there is no judgement as yet but they advise me to enter a defence in case BC tries to get a judgement.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

Cupcake

[MandM]

Await further posts from others, BUT, if BC still haven't complied then you still can't defend apart from an Emb Def (on the basis of 'you still don't know what you're defending).

 

IMO i'd submit the ED so it shifts to your own court and then apply to have the claim struck out!

 

BC's not good when challenged lol.

 

M

[cupcake68]

Thanks M and M

 

I will do that.

 

Also I have received today the FOS response to my complaint.

 

Egg say they sent a copy of my agreement in July 09, they have no reason to doubt that. Egg wrote in May 10 saying they would send again (still not received) FOS don't care about that, FOS can't uphold my complaint and enclose a copy of my agreement.

 

Guess what?!

 

No agreement enclosed!!!!!!!!

 

Why can no one give me a copy of this agreement although they all say they are?!

 

GRRRRRR!

 

I am going to email FOS and say thanks very much you're as helpful and efficient as Egg

 

Cupcake

[gh2008]

I wouldn't even enter an ED. Enter a very short defence

 

admitting that you applied for an account (if the POC identifies teh account)

deny there was ever a properly executed enforceable agreement

deny you owe the claimant the amount claimed or any amount at all

 

Then it's up tp them to prove otherwise and you will get the chance (if it ever comes to that) to submit full details in your AQ, WS & skeleton (and in any answer to any docs subsequently provided)

[gh2008]

Thanks M and M

 

I will do that.

 

Also I have received today the FOS response to my complaint.

 

Egg say they sent a copy of my agreement in July 09, they have no reason to doubt that. Egg wrote in May 10 saying they would send again (still not received) FOS don't care about that, FOS can't uphold my complaint and enclose a copy of my agreement.

 

Guess what?!

 

No agreement enclosed!!!!!!!!

 

Why can no one give me a copy of this agreement although they all say they are?!

 

GRRRRRR!

 

I am going to email FOS and say thanks very much you're as helpful and efficient as Egg

 

Cupcake

 

I would stick to your guns and ask for another copy of the agreement.

 

I would also send Egg another S78 request - well worth the £1 to see what they come up with this time

[MandM]

Sounds fishy. Like Mightyacorn I got both agreements with my SAR. They seem to pick and choose who they send them to though as you're one of many that i've seen that they won't give it to.

[MandM]

And hello Mr g

[cupcake68]

Thanks Guys!

 

Do I have to follow any particular format when entering a defence? Are ther particular things I must include?

 

I don't want to start off on the judges bad side lol!!!

 

Cupcake

[vjohn82]

This is always sufficient...

 

 

1. I, [insert full name & address], am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by [insert Claimant’s name]

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant notes that the Claimants' claim is not fully particularised and offers no cause for action and is thus eligible for a strike out under CPR 3.4.2 (a).

 

4. The Claimant as failed to disclose appropriate documentation to support the Particulars of Claim, requested under CPR 31.14 and CPR 18, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands.

 

5. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of [insert claim sum] and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum.

 

6. As the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to s.69 of the County Court Act 1984.

 

AND the Defendant;

 

7. Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed, on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action.

[gh2008]

Yep, go with VJ's gives the DJ more to use. Not seen that one before - nice

 

It's good to see that everyone's moving away from the rambling 'copied off the Internet' ED .... I'm sure they were starting to 'get' to the DJs

 

and Hi Mr M - I thought I wrote that earlier but cannot see it .....

[cupcake68]

That's great!

 

Thanks so much everyone.

 

Have a great weekend

 

Cupcake

[vjohn82]

I'm not entirely sure I can take credit for it... I'm sure I've picked up bits here and there but this is my own work in terms of putting relevant bits together.

 

I only use ED's as an absolute last resort. I would always try to agree an extension with the Claimant pending disclosure. If they agree it means the Judge won;t have to spend time reading an ED at all... if they disagree, well - the Judge will have them by the balls.

 

Negotiate first... ED last resort.

[mightneverhappen]

Been following this thread, so I hope these are not stupid questions, but here goes...

 

"Negotiate first... ED last resort." What are you negotiating? Is it just for the documents so you can prepare a proper defence, or to get the claimant to withdraw. If at the AQ stage you haven't got the docs, is that the point where you submit the ED (or, if you have got them, submit the full defence)? Hope it is not inappropriate in someone else's thread to ask these questions (if so, I apologise in advance!)

[vjohn82]

Been following this thread, so I hope these are not stupid questions, but here goes...

 

"Negotiate first... ED last resort." What are you negotiating? Is it just for the documents so you can prepare a proper defence, or to get the claimant to withdraw. If at the AQ stage you haven't got the docs, is that the point where you submit the ED (or, if you have got them, submit the full defence)? Hope it is not inappropriate in someone else's thread to ask these questions (if so, I apologise in advance!)

 

I rarely see stupid questions... only stupid answers ;-)

 

The claim will never reach AQ stage without some form of defence (be it a comprehensive one or an ED).

 

The negotiation is simply this; "give me an extension of the date to file a defence in light of your failure to provide disclosure"

 

You then await their reply. If none is given by the last date of defence filing then you simply file the ED. If they supply documents AFTER you have filed an ED you write to the court requesting permission to amend your defence.

[mightneverhappen]

many thanks, that has made it very clear.