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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Are You A Third Party Victim Of Lbl


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Hi

 

We are looking for people like ourselves who bought a car then found out it had a lbl on it.

 

We swapped a Renault Megane Sports Coupe (4 seater) for Citreon Synergie (7 seater). We needed a bigger car as we have a disabled child small car didn't have enough room.

 

We done hpi checks and car was clear nothing shown up. We done the deal and took the citreon.

 

In the time we had the citreon we spent money doing it up for its mot this cost us £1500.

 

In December we got up to find the car had been clamped, we called the number left. This is when we found out it had a lbl on it. They came to out and told us they were taking the car as it was not ours and we were not entitled to it.

 

The firm that came out were called Armstrong Recovery Ltd (debt collection agency). They chucked our personal posessions out of the car not bothering to take any care. But not everything of ours was given back somethings were taken with the car (my sons sponser money, cd's kids toys) not a lot but ours.

 

They drove the car away, we were shown nothing, told nothing. We went to see our solicitor who got in touch with Armstrong Recovery who basically told us to ********** off.

 

Lbl quote the bos 1887 did they have cars then????????????????.

 

We have been in touch with the daily mirror who is running our story in the next couple of weeks. We went to the papers because up until Jan 09 the megane was still registered in my name and i was recieving parking tickets, my solicitor has sorted this out for me. But my son who is autistic and has adhd is now having his life put at risk everyday walking to and from school, when away from school he is a prisoner in his own home as he can' handle going on public transport because there is too many people around. We had a car to make his life easier.

 

As the megane was worth £2000 and the money we spent on the citeron £1500 we have been ripped of for £3500. What we find wrong is the fact we are not entitled to anything so we are innocent victims in this but still entitled to nothing. The people we got the citreon from owed over £2000 on the car but stopped paying the loan they must have known that the car was going to be taken so they sold it. Is it right that they can keep the megane. The law should help protect innocent victims but at the moment they are protecting the wrong people.

 

All innocent victims need to work together to help change the law as well as helping others who are now expereincing problems with lbl and their agents.

 

If you are a third party victim please let us know your story.

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  • 1 month later...

We now have a solicitor helping us fight our corner. Also had BBC who has shown interest in lbl and how they are ripping people off.

 

Local news coming to see us to run our story.

 

We still looking for other innocent victims of lbl, if you know anyone please tell them to get intouch as the bbc would be very interested.

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As you have a Solictor involved,why has he/she not considered a application to court for a Return of Goods Order?

 

The argument for this is that the orginal sale was a conditional sale,you agreed to swap (possibly with additional money to offset the value,in view that you were upgrading to larger vehicle).

As the original seller had no legal title to the vehicle, the sale could be considered null and void. As the seller has probably moved,there is no reason why you cannot start legal action at the sellers last known address.

Once in receipt of a Return of Goods Order, and if the the seller has moved from the address from which the vehicle was sold, a letter with a copy of the ROG to the DVLA may reveal a new address, which could then be passed back to the court bailiffs to effect the order.

 

This type of Fraud is becoming frequent and typically takes place like this.

 

The soon to be seller applys to the DVLA for a replacement V5 document.

Armed with two copys of the V5,he/she goes to a LBL type of operation and applys for a loan,and in the process surrenders 1 copy of the V5 to the lender.

Now the soon to seller is up on the deal,1 or 2 payments may take place, now the soon to seller trys to sell the vehicle.

Having found a probable buyer and armed with the 2nd copy of the V5 and other documents goes to the new buyers address and sells the car.

The new buyer confident in that all the documents are correct (and without rarely asking why a replacement V5 is being produced) buys the vehicle.

The Seller is now twice up on the deal,1st with money from the lender and 2nd with money from the buyer.

The Seller by now would have moved and in due course gets a vist from a repo team at the last known address, having no sucess they carry out a DVLA check and find the new keeper, and in all too many cases,the innocent 3rd party buyer loses the vehicle.

HPI checks are only as good as the information provided,at the moment there is no legal requirement for a lender to register their interest in a vehicle.

 

Apologys if this seems a simplistic view, and I agree that there are problems with LBL and their business practice, but in this case there is a strong argument to pursue the seller,it`s the seller who has defrauded you and LBL

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Our solicitor is looking in to getting the car we swapped back, but will it be in the condition we swapped it. (we don't think so). Without saying to much we also have reason to pursue lbl and the recovery company.

 

We had repairs done to the car that was taken these cost £1500, who is liable for them, as we were never the legal owner we are not responsible for the repair costs.

 

Lbl said they were the legal owners (maybe they should refund us the repair costs)

 

We are in touch with a bbc programme who are looking into our case as well. They also keeping their eyes on this site.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just wanted to post support for you, and i hope you can recoup all your losses.

I'm a 'customer' of LBL myself, though would never consider selling my vehicle whilst under contract without authorisation of the loan company, and am disgusted that people can do this to innocent parties such as yourself.

I did change my car once whilst under contract, though informed LBL prior to the sell, which they agreed, although they applied a £100 admin charge.

 

I do question the legalities involved in proving ownership of a car, and if there is finance outstanding.

LBL do take the owners V5 on completion of a loan, but that doesn't stop the owner requesting a duplicate from the DVLA.

You say that a HPI check was done on the car which showed no financial interest from a 3rd party.

To me common sense prevails, and that you shouldn't be penalised as you've shown due diligence in proving the status of the car you obtained.

LBL have failed in identifying their financial interest in the car, thus any monies outstanding on the loan, and breach of contract, should be taken up with the original owner of the car not you....how on earth could you be aware?

 

May i suggest you inform your MP of the situation, and requesting their understanding on the matter.

 

The OFT are in the process of revoking LBL's credit license, and if successful i would hope all loans of this type are stopped, at least until legislation can be implemented to stop this sort of thing happening. i.e that anyone with a financial interest in a vehicle must declare it on the HPI database within a certain time frame.

 

As you can tell, i can only speak from the heart, and sincerely hope that you can obtain a quick and satisfactory resolution.

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We would like to thank you for your support, we now have our case in the hands of a solicitor who are looking at every aspect of our case. This includes lbl, armstrong recovery and the previous owners of the car.

 

Our MP has been involved with our case since January.

 

Our problems with the previous owner does not end with the taking of our car.

 

In November 2008 we received a parking ticket for the car we swapped. We took this to our solicitor as we were no longer the owner of the car. He sent proof of this to Nottingham City Council. The council took no notice of this and today we recieved a removal order from a bailiff who were going to come and reposess the car we no longer own if they couldn't take the car they were going to take possessions from our house.

 

This has now been st0pped after getting the daily mirror, local mp and cab involved.

 

We now regret ever swapping the car and getting involved in all this hassle.

 

Our MP has been brilliant and has helped alot over the last few months, the daily mirror have done alot to help.

 

We shouldn't have to pay someone elses debt, but they will be madeto pay in the end as the previous owner still has lbl on their case now they have nottingham city council and us.

 

We will update as we find out more.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi jolly

 

We been keeping up to date with all on here. We have been in touch with a few people if we hear back from them we will let you know by pm.

 

We got a solicitor who is helping us we can pass you the number if you wish.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi

 

Just a quick update on our situation with lbl and persons we got our car from.

 

Today we had a letter from our solicitor telling us they have recieved the bill of sale from lbl. The people we got car from took loan out on 7th november 2007 and swapped us the car in April 2008.

 

There is no court stamp on bill of sale. Solicitor now looking into best course of action for us to take. Looks like we finally getting somewhere.

 

The loan they took out was for £750, by the time the car was took from us this had gone up to over £2000.

 

Will keep you updated as we find out more.

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Just another quick update.

 

Since we recieved the bill of sale earlier on in the week we have recieved another letter from our MP. Our MP Paddy Tipping has now found out that change of consumer law that was supposed to come in October has been put on hold. He has now wrote to the head of the OFT sending copies of all our emails and paperwork that we have to them, he wants to know why changes will not come into effect in October and he also wants to know why third party victims are not protected when they should be.

 

We now await replies from solicitor and OFT. He also asking how third party victims of any company like LBL can claim compensation as they have done nothing wrong.

 

We are also notifying Daily Mirror on Monday about this as they waiting to run follow up story on our case.

 

Paddy Tipping now trying to gain support from MPs to get changes to the law to protect innocent victims.

 

When we hear more we will update as necessary. Will find name of OFT person who he wrote to, then others can write to same person with their complaints about LBL.

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Just another quick update.

 

Today we recieved letter from a council who are looking into Armstrong Recovery. If anyone else has had dealings with Armstrong Recovery send PM and we will give details.

 

Not putting them on here as eyes are watching.

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