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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Giving the keys back - advice needed


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Gold Lady.

 

I have just re read the entire thread. I am not sure where you get your information from, but tell your friends to relax.

 

It doesnt matter which way it happens.

 

BR/Repo Repo/Br

 

During your Bankruptcy, be it 6/8/12 Months or 10 years,

 

NOBODY but NOBODY can touch you ( Even the tax man ) or chase you for a debt.

 

Bankruptcy is a very personal, very surreal experience, but it is also there to protect the individual, regardless of circumstances.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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Thanks for your advice goldlady - has anyone else had experience of this? You would think it would be in the mortgage companys interest to sell house as quick as possible?

 

Only problem with selling is finding yet more money to get that sellers pack, pay solicitors, estate agents etc..

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Hi Tonycee,

 

are you saying that if we move out into rented, and then go bankrupt the house shortfall will be included in the bankruptcy even thouhg it hasn't been sold or repossessed?

In which case should we give the keys back, sell it ourselves or wait until mortgage company repossess?

 

We could just stop paying everyone and see if someone bankrupts us but what happens if one of our creditors puts charge on house?

 

Last question would it make any difference to future possibility of getting a mortgage again if we managed a sale privately and thereofre only had the bankruptcy not a repossesion as well? (hope that makes sense)

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Hi Tonycee,

 

are you saying that if we move out into rented, and then go bankrupt the house shortfall will be included in the bankruptcy even thouhg it hasn't been sold or repossessed?

In which case should we give the keys back, sell it ourselves or wait until mortgage company repossess?

 

The choice is yours. The OR will take the property into account and as there is no equity the mortgage co will have no choice but to repossess. The important thing is to stop paying. Use the money to get together the BR fees and up front rental.

We could just stop paying everyone and see if someone bankrupts us but what happens if one of our creditors puts charge on house?

 

Doubtful anyone other than HMRC will bankrupt you. If theres a charge it just wont get paid when the house is sold eventually.

Last question would it make any difference to future possibility of getting a mortgage again if we managed a sale privately and thereofre only had the bankruptcy not a repossesion as well? (hope that makes sense)

 

Doubt it very much. The BR will be the over riding factor for at least 6 years.

 

You need to get a time plan together of how you are going ot approach things.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Hi Tony, I was told this by a friend who is an insolvency practitioner and also have read it in several threads on CAG, including Tawnyowl's repossession thread. But I can see where you are coming from too as if the house is part of the assets of the BR then the receiver should have control of it. But if it is a liability due to a shortfall yet to be determined would the OR not just ignore it?

 

 

 

Gold Lady.

 

I have just re read the entire thread. I am not sure where you get your information from, but tell your friends to relax.

 

It doesnt matter which way it happens.

 

BR/Repo Repo/Br

 

During your Bankruptcy, be it 6/8/12 Months or 10 years,

 

NOBODY but NOBODY can touch you ( Even the tax man ) or chase you for a debt.

 

Bankruptcy is a very personal, very surreal experience, but it is also there to protect the individual, regardless of circumstances.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Thanks Gizmo that makes sense. Think we have found a very nice agent who is going to help us around the credit situation to find us somewhere to rent, apparantly he has had to advise a number of his landlords to relax the rules a little as so many people in the same sitution at the moment? So going to look at a place on Tuesday - fingers crossed!

 

So as soon as we get the keys to our rented place and move stuff in would you advise the next step would be to make ourselves bankrupt straightaway? Like you said just trying to get the timings in my head. Now we have finally made that difficult decision to do this I just want to get on with things and get it sorted ASAP?

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Hi Tony, I was told this by a friend who is an insolvency practitioner and also have read it in several threads on CAG, including Tawnyowl's repossession thread. But I can see where you are coming from too as if the house is part of the assets of the BR then the receiver should have control of it. But if it is a liability due to a shortfall yet to be determined would the OR not just ignore it?

 

Let me explain it the way i see it.

 

1. You are made, or go Bankrupt for whatever reason.

 

2. Your house is no longer your house. It belongs to the official Receiver.

 

3. Your financial affairs are supervised by the OR, whether its 1 or 10 years.

 

4.You are, or have been repossessed.

 

5. There is a shortfall in the sale price.

 

6. Who cares ??? Its no longer your house. It belongs to the Official Receiver. They will have to deal with any shortfall. It wont get paid, it will just have to be written off.

 

The main concept of Bankruptcy is that you are insolvent, and cant technically pay your way. The Official Receiver will supervise you back to reality.

 

A clean start. NO DEBTS.

 

There are many scenarios through BR, but the end product is always the same.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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Thanks for the advice Tonycee, that now all makes sense!

 

Would anyone recommend putting the house on the market and trying to sell it ourselves whilst waiting to get somewhere to rent/move etc? or is not worth the money and hassle?

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One of the problems trying to sell when in arrears is that the lender can block the sale when it comes to exchange of contracts.

 

 

I read somewhere that this would be overturned by a Judge (can't recall the case law - sorry)

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Thanks for the advice Tonycee, that now all makes sense!

 

Would anyone recommend putting the house on the market and trying to sell it ourselves whilst waiting to get somewhere to rent/move etc? or is not worth the money and hassle?

 

 

It is really not worth it.

 

Sorry

 

another question, will our bankruptcy last longer before we are discharged due to the house?

 

Not neccasarily - there is no reason for you to have a BRO that I can seee.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Just been reading some other threads - what is a sub prime lender? Payplan told us our mortgage company (was GMAC took over by Mortgage Agency Services no 5) are a sub prime lender and they are harder to deal with?

 

 

You won't be dealing with them though the OR will. And them being awkward has no bearing on you getting a BRO.

A sub prime lender is someone who lends to people with an adverse credit history. They take higher risks and charge higher rates.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Payplan told us our mortgage company (was GMAC took over by Mortgage Agency Services no 5) are a sub prime lender and they are harder to deal with?

 

My Mortgage is with GMAC @ around 9.25%.

They are just about to get their comeuppance for being so greedy.

I have not paid them for 7 months and cant wait for them to repossess.

The hardest part about BR is actually doing it.

 

Just forget about everything else, stop paying everybody, and save up as much as you can.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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We have stopped paying everyone now and fingers crossed think we have found somewhere to rent today who will accept our situation!!! :D so bankruptcy here we come!

 

I don't know if anyone else out there has received advice form payplan but i think it is slightly irresponsible to advise someone that when they are on a minus of £275.00 per month to make offers to creditors etc - where is the logic in that if the pot is empty and you just simply can't afford to do it????

 

I would recommend anyone speak to the National Debtline, you may not like what they have to say but they are honest and sometimes you just need someone to tell you that you just can't afford to stay in your house and keep paying everyone however tough that may sound!!! well unless you know you are going to win the lottery next week!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I would like to thank everyone on here for there advice!

I am going through a very similar situation, where i cant pay for anything due to wages being cut.

I have been trying to sel my house for 6 months with not 1 viewing and its already at negative equity!

I have to sell it as i have spent way to much on things breaking and think if i dont move soon, the house will just fall apart!

 

After having read everyones threads, i was given the same advice about handing keys back by the CCCS and thought it was a very drastic thing to do but it seems alot of companys recommend this.

Doent Payplan charge for these services? i was always told never to use them by the CCCS and having experienced them from working as a (dont hate me) a debt collector for a major bank.:-|

 

Can i just clarify something as you guys give great advice!

If you need to go into renting and declare yourselfs bankrupt, the order to do so is:

 

1.Stop paying things to save up deposits and moving fees ect..

2. Find somewhere to rent and get a contract signed.

3. Hand keys back

3. Bankruptcy.

 

The reason i ask as i dont want the OR to turn around and say i did it wrong and have a restriction order against me.

 

:)

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I would like to thank everyone on here for there advice!

I am going through a very similar situation, where i cant pay for anything due to wages being cut.

I have been trying to sel my house for 6 months with not 1 viewing and its already at negative equity!

I have to sell it as i have spent way to much on things breaking and think if i dont move soon, the house will just fall apart!

 

After having read everyones threads, i was given the same advice about handing keys back by the CCCS and thought it was a very drastic thing to do but it seems alot of companys recommend this.

Doent Payplan charge for these services? i was always told never to use them by the CCCS and having experienced them from working as a (dont hate me) a debt collector for a major bank.:-|

 

Can i just clarify something as you guys give great advice!

If you need to go into renting and declare yourselfs bankrupt, the order to do so is:

 

1.Stop paying things to save up deposits and moving fees ect..

2. Find somewhere to rent and get a contract signed.

3. Hand keys back

3. Bankruptcy.

 

The reason i ask as i dont want the OR to turn around and say i did it wrong and have a restriction order against me.

 

:)

 

I'm currently doing exactley the same (just found a flat to rent...) using cccs also.

 

Re: Handing keys back, don't tell the mortgage company just post them back recorded del. with a typed out letter - do NOT sign the letter.

 

I think the restriction order lasts three years (?) if you have

 

Good Luck!

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hi jnjl, im going though the same thing at the moment, my husband has lost hes job and i work part time round my little boy. we are in a lot of debt, we have also got an interest only mortagage thats £970.00 a month, i had rang g mac and asked if they could change or accept lower payments in december as my husbands hours was cut, they said pay as much as you can, we paid 650.00 in december, 750.00 jan, 650.00 feb. now my husband is unemployed i have not paid a penny to my mortgage because we just cannot afford to pay anything.

the mortgage people have asked for full payment now and i have told them that my husband is out of work but they do not care they just want there money. the thing is we have just lost 20,000 because of the house market, so even if we sold the house we would owe the mortgage money still, so i have been and sin citizens advice took debt and mortgage and they have told us to go bankrupt, i new they was going to say that, but its such a relief knowing what to do. we are going to go bankrupt that way our debt goes with it as well, plus the house (great no more being ripped off with mortgage), at the end of the day i would say go bankrupt that way it wipes your debt off and the house if you have not got any equity in it. then the council have to give you some where to live leased its only 400.00 a month, but if the council have not got any houses then they have told me that they will put you in a private rented house also they pay the deposit for you as well. DONT PAY ANY MORE TO MORTGAGE, but thats up to you if you want to keep your house or make a fresh start. i have started to fill in the bankruptcy forms and it is scarry, but i will be glad when its all over and i can start a new life some where else. the other thing is that if you hand the keys in then the council will not help you as they say you have made your self homeless by handing the keys in. it is 345.00 to go bankrupt also 150.00 court cost but if you are not working then you should not have to pay court costs. all i want to no is that when i do the bankruptcy, can they take my items that is in my name. as the bankruptcy is going in my husbands name.

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. all i want to no is that when i do the bankruptcy, can they take my items that is in my name. as the bankruptcy is going in my husbands name.

 

They will not be interested in anything that is not of good resale value. However, if the mortgage is in joint names, and only your husband goes bankrupt, then you are liable for the balance.

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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Any joint debt you have will go into your name, if your husbnd goes bankrupt. I am having to go bankrupt as most debt is in my name, and once i do, it will force my husband to go bankrupt aswell after. The thing that annoys me, is that you cant do a joint bankruptcy and have to do it seperatly! I think you should be able to go it jointly especially as most of our debt is joint. Wouldnt it save the courts time and money doing it this way?

 

With regards to the council rehoming you, you dont know where they are going to put you...? You could end up in a really bad area!

 

Im currently looking at private renting, but im concerned as my husband is going to have to put his name down for it, as i wouldnt pass the credit check!

Wouldnt anyone recommend telling the letting agent about your bad credit or just keep it to yourselfs?

 

Even tho, this is a horrible situation to be in, i feel much more relaxed after reading everyone posts and that your not the only one going through this!

 

:)

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thank you for the message, i have heard that if you have bad credit then you cannot get a private rented house, i have even said about having the private rented house in my mom and dads name but we could not do that because it would interfere with housing benefit so we are stuck. but i would be better off in a council house, i know it could be a bad area but if its bad then i will just turn it down. my auntie has just left her husband and they offered her 3 houses and she turned everyone down as they where 2 bed and she needed a 3 bed, she went private in the end. i have got to go and see the housing advice lady today, as at the moment im on the bottom of the list to get a house, thats only because we have still got a roof over our heads at the moment.

im just really ****ed that i have got to use my little bit of wages now to go bankrupt.

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You don't have to rush into BR, you can save up for it and do it in a few months when settled. You may be exempt from the court fee.

 

Not all landlords refuse someone who has bad credit and gone BR - I would argue that now you have no other debts and a proper budget to live on you won't miss the rent payments, especially if you are getting some HB.

 

You may be able to get your mum and dad to be guarantor, or you may get assistance wit hteh councils bond scheme where they pay the deposit and

1st months rent. The other thing is to save up as much as you can before you leave the house and offer more than 1 months rent in advance.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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