finding faulty cca agreements after a ccj??

[robcag]

guys i really appreciate your help. im takin it easy for a couple of days n then i ll look into this properly so i wont waste your efforts.

 

 

Hi r&b

 

I know you said you're taking a break from this but when you return you might like to check out what I've posted in my set aside thread regarding case law, posts #49 and #50 are what I'm referring you to ATM, but others may follow, see;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/123971-ccj-set-aside-help-3.html#post2314941

 

Who knows, the case I've detailed may hopefully even be the basis for an appeal for you

 

Cheers

Rob

[caro]

An N244 can be used for any application.

 

The notes at the end of the form may make things clearer for you, in particular this part.

 

Set out what order you are applying for and why; e.g. to adjourn the hearing because..., to set aside a judgment against me because... etc.

 

The full document is linked here.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_e.pdf

[r&b]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/pdf/parts/part14.pdf

 

PART 23 - GENERAL RULES ABOUT APPLICATIONS FOR COURT ORDERS - Ministry of Justice

 

And here's my 2 penneth...

 

It definitely looks as though it needs to be done on an n244 application just wish someone out there could confirm one way or another!!!

 

Spam.

 

thanks caro,rob,spam,

 

im not sure u would get away without a hearing as im sure the other side will have quite a bit to say about it and most DJs will prob give them the chance to put there side regarding any prejudice.

[caro]

There may well need to be a hearing. Any application has to be considered on it's merits so if it isn't straightforward a hearing is inevitable.

 

Even if the decision is then set aside, the original claim will then need to be heard again, and your defence amended.

 

I will admit to not having read your entire thread yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating things already posted.

[r&b]

i seem to remember other caggers looking for no win no fee barristers in this field for appeals, but cant seem to find if anyone had any luck. ive got my local law society number and will call them next week as if this requires stepping up a notch i would prefer the clout. it may be of interest to them as the DJ basically said if i get thru the admission removal they are going to find defending this very diff. has anyone got any ideas on where to find one and also any time limits involved for such an appeal?

[caro]

I'm not convinced you'd find a barrister who would work on a no win no fee basis, although some solicitors will. If you want to go down this route, I'd suggest you look for one who specialises in this area of law.

 

Ideally I understand that you should apply for set aside within 21 days, but a few caggers have succeeded in getting decisions overturned a year or 2 later, when they discovered there was something they could do.

 

Be warned that some solicitors will tell you it's impossible. We know different.

[Spamalot]

Hi R&B... good to see you are back fighting!

 

Time limits on the appeal was something I was trying to look into, but as these cases went through bulk centre without hearings it's difficult to get leave of appeal from the judge... also how can you appeal an undefended judgement... been chasing my tail on that one..

 

The only admission withdrawals we have found relate to cases that hadn't reached judgement stage... so that's another fly in the ointment!!

 

Had considered the possibility about issuing a claim for abuse of process in as much as no documentation for the alleged original claim etc... but perhaps that's grasping at straws?

 

Definitely need legal guidance on the way forward on this one ...

 

Sorry, not much help.

 

Spam.

[caro]

It can be done

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

[Spamalot]

It can be done

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

 

I think the problem relates to the fact that R&B 'admitted' the full claim and failed to withdraw it prior to judgement which is why he is having problems with the set aside..

 

I believe Satterthwaites was a default judgement in which he just let happen i.e neither fully admitted or denied.. but I could be wrong and I am more than happy to stand corrected.

 

Spam.

[caro]

The point is judgments can be set aside and charging orders removed.

 

What may be harder will be to persuade a judge that the admission was a mistake, and that r&b had not known that there was no properly executed CCA so the debt was unenforceable.

 

No-one is saying it will be easy.

 

You should be aware that even with a no win no fee solicitor, you would still be liable to the other sides costs if awarded, and also quite possibly any outlay your own solicitor makes. It is literally just their fee that wouldn't have to be paid. I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a professional involved, because it may well be best, but consider all the implications of any decision that you may make. You may be able to get a half hour consultation for free which might help with a decision.

Edited July 25, 2009 by caro

[Spamalot]

All points agreed with Caro.. no dispute there.

 

While you are around... do you happen to know if it is possible to withdraw an admission after judgement?

 

We can only find instances of it being done prior to and during commencement of proceedings...

 

Thanks,

Spam.

[r&b]

thanks caro,

your points are well made and appreciated.

what i would like to know are my options and timeframes for those options. obviously i can go up a notch, court wise as i have been denied leave of appeal. im of a mind that this will require legal help however. the DJ also warned me that there are time limits for such an appeal.

there is an issue tho as to whether this time limit is for appealing his decision to set aside, or appealing the original decision, in which case i would need court approval to retract the admission.

they did quote one other option in their reply to my defence, which was to start a fresh action agaisnt the decision?

im going to have to sit down and get all this straight in my head so i can research a bit deeper i think...

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello R&B!

 

Yes, you have 21 days from the hearing to submit your Appeal, and that is not long. This may help:

HMCS Appeal Forms and Leaflets

 

And...

 

PART 52 - APPEALS - Ministry of Justice

 

And...the Practice Directions that go with the above:

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION 52 – APPEALS - Ministry of Justice

 

You will need an N460 from the Judge, stating his/her reasons for refusing your Appeal. He/she should've completed that at the end of the hearing, but they will knock one out for you if not.

 

You will also then need to organise a few other things, notably a Transcript of the Judgment. That has to be done by an approved Transcriber, I can recommend a good one that has been helpful to Caggers.

 

You can also get a Transcript of the hearing itself, but that will add to the cost. The Judgment is usually quite short, and so may cost around £100-£150, whereas the main hearing could be £300-£500. If your Income is low, you may be able to get these fees back, but that takes time and you won't get them back fast.

 

Then you need to establish:

 

(1) Your Grounds for the Appeal. IOW, the key legal points you wish to Appeal against.

 

(2) The Route for your Appeal.

 

See the CPR Part 52 above, and the Practice Directions that relate to that.

 

Then you need to complete an N161 Appellant's Notice, see links above, or this below:

 

N161 Form and Guidance

 

You can always pull out, so don't get too stressed about the 21 Day Deadline, the key is to submit an Appeal by then, and not blow that deadline. If you do, you can still Appeal, but it's then an Appeal Out of Time, and it gets harder and you must then submit your Skeleton Argument straight away, whereas if you Appeal on time, you get a further 14 days to submit your Skeleton.

 

You also need to compile an Appeal Bundle, which will be all the key documents that related to your main hearings, plus the Judgment Transcript, N460, N161 Appellent's Notice and also your Grounds for Appeal document. You can get away with submitting the Bundle later than 21 days, provided the key documents are submitted on time (N460, N161 and Grounds for Appeal etc).

 

I would, if you can, seriously consider getting a good Direct Access Barrietsr, or CFA Barrister if you can find one who will take the case on, i.e. on a no win, no fee basis. I would think from what you say, you will have to go for a Direct Access Barrister and pay them.

 

But, it could be money very well spent if with their help you can set the earlier Judgments aside, and see the bankers off.

 

I regret I cannot really advise on the CPR 13 issues, you'd need someone like Andyorch or PT2537 etc to help there, people with legal training...I'm home grown self taught I regret!

 

My advice is to crack on with as much of the Appeal as you can ASAP, but spend at least as much time investigating a good Barrister. If you can get one on board ASAP, they will help you and will steer you with the key issues, provided you do the spade work in terms of documentation and bundles etc.

 

I really hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited August 4, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Tidy of how URLs appear.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello R&B!

 

Forgot to mention that you Appeal, but at first your Appeal is regarded as an appeal for permission to Appeal!

 

So, as permission has been refused, they have to decide if you should have permission to Appeal first, before allowing the actual Appeal.

 

A Barrister will handle that for you, or just work through the issues via CAG and I'm sure you'll get some help.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Spamalot]

Hi BRW and anyone who is on line at the mo..... can you help R&B with regards to the costs he is now having to pay for losing the case... is there any way he can get time to pay? More details on his mint thread.

 

Cheers, Spam

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/182436-mint-cca-enforcable-8.html#post2336634

Edited August 4, 2009 by Spamalot
adding link

[r&b]

spam thanks for trying that for me my friend. if i appeal i believe all costs will be on hold?

 

Hi BRW,

many thanks for looking in and spending the time explaining that, u have made the process very clear and the barrister issue is clearly to the fore. the issue i have is, on what basis i am appealing? i was denied leave to appeal as i had no basis in law to object to the decision, it being taken that set aside was the uincorrect route in the first place. my quandry lies with appealing this decision within the 21 days (very very fast approaching) or taking a completely diff route and going for removal of admission and appeal the initial judgment (this i guess is where the barrister earns his/her money).

i ll crack on with that which i am able, and endeavour to find that elusive FREE barrister!!! better win then eh;)

[Spamalot]

This is one of the criteria for fresh proceedings/ set aside.. might be worth reading, If you haven't already, to see if it can be worked in somewhere..

 

Misrepresentation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Spam.

[atom02]

Hi r&b, am in a similar situation with Link/MBNA and wonder whether you made any headway with trying to appeal this.What process did you follow? I am determined to have their CO removed - will be starting my own thread on it

[atom02]

bump!

 

anyone?