Phil Vs Lloyds (Credit Card) See my CCA Copy

[omoeko]

Hi Guys,

 

They keep sending me statement and they also keep adding interests + charges despite that fact that I have informed them of my finanacial difficulties, looks like they actually ignore all letters.

 

What next now ?

[omoeko]

Hi All,

 

Can someone enlighten me here, I have been reading the forums and heard about the CPR process and why Lloyds are just sending me terms and conditions where they should be sending me a proper executable agreement.

 

Can anyone inform me of the state of play and what i can do to force them to cough up the CCA or how I can use the CPR a template letter would be a good start.

[SkemDosser]

Hi All,

 

Can someone enlighten me here, I have been reading the forums and heard about the CPR process and why Lloyds are just sending me terms and conditions where they should be sending me a proper executable agreement.

 

Can anyone inform me of the state of play and what i can do to force them to cough up the CCA or how I can use the CPR a template letter would be a good start.

It's unlikely you'll get anything more than what you've got through the CCA request route because, in all likelihood, that's all they've got.

 

I'm not sure the size of your debt or it's age [sorry if I've missed it] but essentially you have choices now. You either tell Lloyds the account remains in dispute and they can stuff themselves and take the calculated risk [a pretty reasonable one I reckon] they won't themselves risk a court action if it looks like you will contend it, or try and get more information for your peace of mind.

 

The next step IMHO would be to go for a Subject Access Request [costs a tenner] on the original creditor whereby [supposedly] the creditor has to provide all data they possess on you which should include any copy they have of an executed agreement.

 

This however being far from a perfect world, there is no guarantee you'll get what you want from this [because again, in all likelihood they just don't have it], whereby if you really are finding it difficult to sleep at night, bcause you're not sure whether there is an executed agreement lurking in their vaults somewhere, you can try the CPR route. Here's a link to an excellent thread outlining pre-action techniques:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

There's loads of info there so it's probably worth putting a week aside to read it lol but it's all good stuff.

 

Personally I have reservations about taking such actions yourself [i.e. getting to the point of 'threatening' legal action against against a creditor yourself, although of course you do not have to go through with it] and suspect it's only necessary in a few special cases but it's down to personal choice.

 

My own approach has been that if nothing is forthcoming through the CCA request and a SAR, not much ever will be, and if you are straight with a creditor about your personal circumstances and knowledge of your rights, they'll just keep sending you letters and not much more. Annoying but unless you expect them to wipe the slate clean, manageable.

 

If they do end up starting litigation, then you have a raft of CPR to stop them in their tracks then. Depends whether you want to shoulder some calculated risk and get on with life, or get involved in some serious legal research and continual letter writing! I personally choose the former- let them come to me- but as I said, each to his or her own

[omoeko]

Thanks SkemDosser for the info, I have asked for a SAR long time ago, I can see they have taken the tenner off my account, so I guess its work in progress for the SAR.

 

But the thing is that they keep phoning everyday, although my mobile, they have started calling the house as well scaring the kids. The debt itself is just around 6k and I have had it for over 4 years now.

 

Other thing is that I am in the process of setting up a DMP with a Debt management company, and with DMP's they take all debts into account, so what will I tell them RE the credit card,at thesame time, I can manage a DMP myself, and also how does DMP's work, is DMP the one which creditors put you on for say 6 months and have a revision after then, as thats what one of my creditors have done.

 

I dont have to use a Debt Mgmt company, I can approach creditors on individual basis and make pro-rate offers to them, which they will accept, but for some reason, they all are saying to me use CCCS or CAB for the DMP. Will a DMP from CAB or CCCS last for 6years from the very start as this was the estimate that a Debt management company gave me, based on the assumption that no interest on all my outstanding loans.

 

Looking forward to replies.

[SkemDosser]

omoeko:

I dont have to use a Debt Mgmt company, I can approach creditors on individual basis and make pro-rate offers to them, which they will accept, but for some reason, they all are saying to me use CCCS or CAB for the DMP. Will a DMP from CAB or CCCS last for 6years from the very start as this was the estimate that a Debt management company gave me, based on the assumption that no interest on all my outstanding loans.

 

When I defaulted on the bulk of my credit arrangements a good few years ago I negotiated individually with each creditor [about a dozen of them] and came to an arrangement directly with each one- some quicker than others but they eventually all agreed to token payments in my case.

 

I know these days there are more schemes around like DMP's and isn't there one whereby you get a fair bit written off if you go into a five year plan or something? Anyway, more around these days than when I first ran into trouble lol but to get back to your point, I personally think by negotiating directly with the creditor, you have more control and a direct 'relationship' without some other agency inbetween. What's more, Banks and DCA's CANNOT demand you use the services of CCCS etc. They'd prefer you too [they tried that on with me as well] but they cannot make you and if you make it clear to them you have decided not to, eventually they will deal directly with you.

 

What to do with your creditors [like Lloyds] who it looks like have unenforceable agreements anyway? Like I've said in another post, it's crunch time! You have to decide whether to tell them you maintain the account is in dispute and you're not paying them a penny more [and get the statute barring clock ticking], or you pay them what you can afford for the moment until you can offer them a full and final settlement in the future. It depends I suppose on how 'vulnerable' you feel to possible litigation- are you a property owner? Do you have a nice big car sat out in the driveway? Increasingly it's assets like these that creditors are weighing up when deciding to sue or not.

[omoeko]

omoeko:

I dont have to use a Debt Mgmt company, I can approach creditors on individual basis and make pro-rate offers to them, which they will accept, but for some reason, they all are saying to me use CCCS or CAB for the DMP. Will a DMP from CAB or CCCS last for 6years from the very start as this was the estimate that a Debt management company gave me, based on the assumption that no interest on all my outstanding loans.

 

When I defaulted on the bulk of my credit arrangements a good few years ago I negotiated individually with each creditor [about a dozen of them] and came to an arrangement directly with each one- some quicker than others but they eventually all agreed to token payments in my case.

 

I know these days there are more schemes around like DMP's and isn't there one whereby you get a fair bit written off if you go into a five year plan or something? Anyway, more around these days than when I first ran into trouble lol but to get back to your point, I personally think by negotiating directly with the creditor, you have more control and a direct 'relationship' without some other agency inbetween. What's more, Banks and DCA's CANNOT demand you use the services of CCCS etc. They'd prefer you too [they tried that on with me as well] but they cannot make you and if you make it clear to them you have decided not to, eventually they will deal directly with you.

 

What to do with your creditors [like Lloyds] who it looks like have unenforceable agreements anyway? Like I've said in another post, it's crunch time! You have to decide whether to tell them you maintain the account is in dispute and you're not paying them a penny more [and get the statute barring clock ticking], or you pay them what you can afford for the moment until you can offer them a full and final settlement in the future. It depends I suppose on how 'vulnerable' you feel to possible litigation- are you a property owner? Do you have a nice big car sat out in the driveway? Increasingly it's assets like these that creditors are weighing up when deciding to sue or not.

 

 

Thanks for the advice, I am currently sorting out pro-rota payments for the agreements that are enforceable at the moment, but the credit card element of debts which i suspect might eb unenforceable, interests & charges are being added on to the account, and the banks are acting like they didnt see my letters at all.

 

Thats the worrying thing, at thesame time they also keep calling me, should I speak to them on the phone and see what they have to say and maybe tell them that look, you are meant to send me a good CCA and until you do so, you not geting a penny !

 

At the moment, the banks are a bit backward on correspondents/letters as you can imagine how many people will be going through similar ordeal or even worse, by this time the automatic charging system on the account keeps adding charges onto it.

 

What do I do now re this case, also in the T&C's lloyds sent me, they said they would not have any more correspondence with regards to this matter, which i think is really silly !!

[SkemDosser]

Thanks for the advice, I am currently sorting out pro-rota payments for the agreements that are enforceable at the moment, but the credit card element of debts which i suspect might eb unenforceable, interests & charges are being added on to the account, and the banks are acting like they didnt see my letters at all.

 

Thats the worrying thing, at thesame time they also keep calling me, should I speak to them on the phone and see what they have to say and maybe tell them that look, you are meant to send me a good CCA and until you do so, you not geting a penny !

 

At the moment, the banks are a bit backward on correspondents/letters as you can imagine how many people will be going through similar ordeal or even worse, by this time the automatic charging system on the account keeps adding charges onto it.

 

What do I do now re this case, also in the T&C's lloyds sent me, they said they would not have any more correspondence with regards to this matter, which i think is really silly !!

I wouldn't say a word to them on the phone. There is some good advice in the stickies on how to deal with the calls, there are letter templates etc but essentially blank out their calls. You want to keep a written record of everything you say/discuss with creditors and the only purpose they have for trying to speak to you on the phone is to get you agree to pay and/or pay more. They aren't bothered about anything else. Don't talk to them.

 

As far as a strategy for everything goes? I stress this is only a personal view and you have to tailor it to your own personal circumstances but I would look carefully at what accounts you believe are legally enforceable and treat them as 'priority' debts. Come to some affordable deal with your creditors over them- only token payments for a time if necessary, get interest stopped etc- and look to doing a reduced ffs deal in the future.

 

Ones that you feel confident are unenforceable if it went to litigation, as hard as it is, be reasonable with the creditors at least for the short term, keep paying a bit to them for a couple of months if needs be until the charges are stopped [they will be eventually] then tell them firmly the account remains in dispute and stop paying them.

 

They'll then do one of two things- decide it's not worth the cost and hassle of litigation [the most likely course I would bet] or issue court proceedings.

 

This is a scary thing initially but it need not be if you are well prepared; it's well worth getting your head around as much of the CPR as possible as it's got some very powerful tools to stop a creditor in its tracks from taking it's chances with litigation. An important aspect of the CPR that gets too overlooked sometimes, is the opening provisions for mediation and the avoidance of actually having to go into a court room if at all possible. So if you are a genuine can't payer and have been reasonable with the creditor all along and 'played it by the book,' there is still time then to come to some arrangement [if you want to do that]. If the creditor is still intransigent at that stage and takes it further....well it's not going to look good to a judge is it.

 

That's been my personal strategy and it's worked so far [famous last words when I get the post tomorrow lol] Do as much as you can to put the account legitimately in dispute then wait for them to make a move, whilst fully prepared to spring the right CPR on them if they are daft enough to sue.

 

Some people would say they'd rather be active rather reactive but I think sometimes- particularlry when it comes to the vagarities of the CCA Acts- it's best to know when to keep your head down at the right time lol

 

Good luck anyway with whatever route you choose.

[SkemDosser]

Omoeko: but the credit card element of debts which i suspect might eb unenforceable, interests & charges are being added on to the account, and the banks are acting like they didnt see my letters at all.

 

Didn't really address this in my last epic lol You're in the thick of their automated reply system at the mo' so it'll seem like they're ignoring you- I had the same partic with Lloyds- but it'll play itself out eventually. Just hold the line and keep sending them reasoned letters, preferably recorded delivery, so if needs be you have a file of correspondence to show you were communicating in good faith with them. You'll get a response eventually, even if it is from a DCA [prob 1st Credit groan].

[omoeko]

Just an update everyone, nothing heard yet from Lloyds credit card, instead i keep geting calls from them etc, as they have threathened not to have any furuther correspondence with me with regards to credit card CCA even though it looks unenforceable with terms & conditions sent...

[omoeko]

One thing guys, i just received a SAR from lloyds and just learn that credit card account was opened in May 2007, would this automatically mean that its enforceable, I have sent 2 letters reminding them that what they originally sent me was just a bunch of terms and conditions, and despite the fact that i stated that the account is now in dispute, they are still running the account as usual with interest & charges being added to it.

 

Any advice here.

[cymruambyth]

Hi a word of warning about LTSB. I've been playing ping pong with BLS who said they didn't keep paperwork after 6 years and also offered a substantial discount. When pushed LTSB produced an enforceable CCA from 2002. I'm still waiting for all paperwork from my SAR.

[omoeko]

Hi a word of warning about LTSB. I've been playing ping pong with BLS who said they didn't keep paperwork after 6 years and also offered a substantial discount. When pushed LTSB produced an enforceable CCA from 2002. I'm still waiting for all paperwork from my SAR.

 

Hi

 

who is BLS and when do you get a discount on existing balance ?

[cymruambyth]

Hi, sorry, BLS are the in-house DCAs for LTSB. They offered a discount after I'd sent CCA and they said that they didn't keep documents after 6 years. I ignored this as I didn't have the money and I thought they didn't have any documents:p

[omoeko]

Sorry, re-read everything; the letter states that they have sent a copy of the current t&c, when was the alleged card taken? As your signature is not on the documents I think they would have to be able to produce the original in court to enforce it (though this possibly depends on whether the person hearing the case knows the law...)

 

 

Hi,

 

I just found out from a SAR that the credit card account, air miles duo accont was opened in May 2007, what are the implications of this ?

[omoeko]

Hi Guys

 

I got a CCA finally from lloyds yesterday on the documents sent, this attached document, some sets of terms and conditions with my name on it and also a signed copy of latest statement.

 

Please can someone kindly check for me. I have taken out account numbers etc on the document.

 

[cas93]

Hi

 

as long as they have sent the terms and conditions and a statement of account they have complied with your request. However this is not proof that you have ever signed an agreement with them. I would send a SAR request. When you do, make sure it includes a "true signed copy of the cca". That is really the only way you will know if they have an enforcible agreement

 

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