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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Comet refuse to repair laptop


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Apply to the high court & their (proper) bailiffs will enter the premises of the debtor & either take payment (cheques & CC not allowed) or goods to the value................ don't forget to be there............... oh & take camera:D

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I have filled in form N323 request for a warrant of execution. I thought it came from county court. What do I need to get a warrant from the high court?

 

Won't be taking photos but if I know when there going I will be there with a video camera. Should look good on YouTube

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Rang Comet this morning and once again the manager wouldn't speak to me but was told by his side kick that they wouldn't deal with it as it is up to there head office so I told him I would be going to court with the paperwork at 10 and suggested that somebody from head office should ring me.

 

About 5 mins later a chap from head office rang me and made out he was some kind of legal expert. Anyway he said they would need some time to think about it so I told him I wanted my money know and was not prepared to wait. I then asked him if he understood the implications of not paying and if he understood the meaning of forthwith he confirmed he understood. I then told him I had a completed form N323 and would be taking it to court shortly unfortunately for him he had to ask what this was, I didn't tell him.

 

Anyway went down to the court and handed it in along with the fee so will just have to wait and see what happens now.

 

The thing about all this which really annoys me when you speak to these people they really believe what they're saying and think they are above even the court system. They must be all brain washed

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You visiting the store may have been a mistake you'll regret as you have now fore warned them that they can expect a bailiff visit & they might try to have the CCJ set aside

 

Best leave it to the bailiffs they won't leave the shop without payment of some kind

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Quick update for anyone that's interested.

 

Went to court on Monday as already mentioned and applied for a warrant. Got a letter from the court on Wednesday confirming a warrant had been issued on Monday.

 

Thursday afternoon a bailiff rang me and asked if i had been paid as he had been in contact with Comet and they told him I had been paid. They also told him that they wanted the goods back. So I nipped home to check the post and nothing. Rang the bailiff back told him I hadn't been paid so he said he would contact comet and tell them to pay it into court. I also told the bailiff there was no way I would give them the goods back until I had cleared funds, he wasn't bothered as all he was interested in was the money Comet owd me.

 

Anyway got home about 8 on Friday night and there was a letter with a cheque (£55 short) from Comet along with a letter demanding I return the accer lap top by 4 this Sunday. Now this is very strange as the judgment gives no mention of returning anything or indeed what the judgment is for just the amount owed. Now what is even stranger is Comet claimed on Monday that they have never had any paperwork from the court and that the first they knew of this was when the judgment dropped through there letter box. Looks to me like somebody at comet is a little economical with the truth.

 

Saturday morning got another letter from Comet telling me that they had stopped the first cheque because the warrant had crossed in the post and was short and they would now pay the money into court by Wednesday the 8th, not exactly forthwith. They have also extended the time period for me to return the laptop till next Sunday which I think is really good of them.

 

First thing Monday I will be ringing the bailiff to let him know that they now think Wednesday is forthwith and get his comments on that. As for me returning the laptop in there time frame I think they have more chance of knitting fog. The laptop will be available for them to collect at my convenience after I have received cleared funds or I will return it at cost to them £9.25 an hour plus 45p a mile sounds about fair.

 

Will post up if anything else happens or when this is concluded.

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Now the warrant has been issued it's not for THEM to set time limits it's for YOU & after they way they have treat you I wouldn't give them any. Instruct the bailiff to collect money or goods on Monday

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Glad it's getting sorted, and I feel I need to comment (again) on the TS bit.

 

Firstly, did you contact TS or was it consumer direct? Most TS depts now have their number routed to CD, the staff of which are not in the best position to offer more than basic advice.

 

Remember also that TS are mainly responsible for enforcing criminal legislation - not civil. It is for them to decide what, if any, action needs to be taken, and it is not down to the individual to decide otherwise, or indeed anything to do with the complainant besides the general effect the complained about behaviour has on society in general.

 

Then there are the practical issues. The legal dept of a company like dixons is bigger than the entirety of most TS depts. All a company has to do, in the words of one TSO I know, is produce the ticked and signed forms showing training, demonstrate due diligence etc, mention Tesco v Natrass (which defined an employee as "another person" to the company) and bingo they have a defence. In short, there is not the time, money, staff or chance of winning a court case. Even if there were, the punishment will be of no deterrence. And don't forget it is taxpayers money being used. Oldham are battling (and losing) their fight against Vance Miller (the "kitchen gangster") on this very basis and on others - thousands have been spent in preparing cases against him, stop now orders have been made amongst other measures, yet despite all the efforts of Oldham Trading Standards he continues to operate. And that is one person - not a national corporation.

 

You can read all the reports on consumer protection you want, all the bumph put out by government on enorcing your rights, but it will not change the situation.

 

Even if you think TS is a waste of time, it is still worth reporting. Information like this is needed for intelligence. There will, I hope, be some day where the situation changes and TS have enough intelligence to at least get an undertaking.

 

I am not justifying it, and i am not going to respond to comments on what I have said, as this point has been argued to death before. I am merely stating the situation.

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Once I have cleared funds in my hand and I know its all over I will right to TS with a detailed report of what has happened from start to finish including copies of correspondence sent to me by Comet.

 

Would have complained to TS before but have been very busy and thought involving TS would have just slowed things down.

 

Hopefully one-day the likes of TS and other government bodies that are supposed to control and regulate will be given some teeth so they can stop the likes of the bullying big companies pushing the general public about and denying them there rights

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

Please can anyone help me!

My partner bought an acer aspire one from comet with linux on it, as we do not know anything about linux, he asked if it could do the same things as windows and was told yes and that linux just looks different, when he brought it home, we found that we could not install programs onto it and that it also had a fault, when it starts up it reaches a blue screen then restarts itself, then freezes.

he returned it to the store to ask to change it for a windows one, they said no, he told them that it also had a fault, but was told to contact acer, then head office.

when we contacted head office, they told us it was at the managers discretion, i sent several e-mails to them, but they keep insisting we contact acer, so i finally sent them an e-mail quoting the sale of goods act to them, saying that the product was not as described and unfit for purpose and if i did not receive a refund within 7 days i would take them to court, they have replied saying that the need acer to check that there is a fault, i replied that the contract is with comet and not acer and i want a refund.

But i don't know what else i can do now!

Can anyone advise me on how to take them to court?

any suggestion would be most appreciated

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1st start you own thread & 2nd how long have you had it & 3rd the dealer is (as usual) talking cr*p The 'contract' is with the seller NOT the manufacture.

 

As you have said it's upto THEM to sort the problem nit the maker

 

Inform them in writing that you intend, at their cost, to have an independent engineer inspect the LP & once confirmed you will issue legal proceedings to recover all of your losses

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They have now sent me the following reply:-

 

 

The store do not accept that the unit has been mis-sold. This being the case, they can only address your claim that the unit is faulty.

 

The Sales of Goods Act affords us the right to inspect a product to confirm a fault, and once confirmed, to attempt a repair. We are entitled to use a repair agent of our choosing, and in the case of computer equipment, we use the manufacturer as the agent.

 

For the purpose of diagnosis of the fault, we request the customer contact the agent (Acer) directly. However, if you do not wish to do so, the store will contact Acer on your behalf.

 

 

 

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Quick update

 

Spoke to the bailiff on Thursday 9th he told me that when they get a warrant they right to the defendant asking for payment but must allow 7 days before paying them a visit but there 7 days was up but due to finishing at lunch time for the Easter holiday he would not be able to visit till after the Easter break.

 

Tuesday the 14th rang the bailiff on his mobile about 10.30 and he was actually on his way to Comet to levy on goods as he had waited to see if payment had come in that morning which it hadn't. Rang me back about an hour later to tell me that he was at Comet and they had spoken to there head office who had confirmed they had made a payment. After some ringing round he found they had sent the payment to the wrong court but it had only been received that morning.

 

Thursday 16th received a letter from the court confirming they have received payment and where waiting clearance of the cheque and I would receive payment from the court after it had cleared.

 

Afternoon of Thursday 16th Comet rang me to see why I hadn't returned the laptop as agreed. Because i didn't remember agreeing to this told him they could collect after I had received cleared funds. He insisted that this was part of the agreement so I reminded him this was a court judgement which I have a copy of which has no mention of me returning anything and was only allowing them to have it back to save me the cost of environmental disposal. He then told me he needed to take advise, just hope its better then there previous advise

 

Saturday 18th received a letter from the court asking me to confirm I had received payment as the defendant had asked for a certificate of satisfaction. I immediately wrought to the court telling them I had not received cleared funds and would inform them when I had.

 

Seems to me Comet thing they can do as they please even when a court tells them they can't. One things for sure won't be giving them any more of my custom

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