Nuthatch v Homebase/Argos card

[nuthatch]

I took out a Homebase card in approx 2002 and the balance eventually became part of a DMP being administered by CCCS.

I have continued to receive monthly statements from Homebase...they have stopped all charges and interest and the outstanding balance is below £400 now.

As part of my campaign to sort out my debts, I CCA'd Homebase in November 2008.

Yesterday....rather out of time I received a letter from Homebase enclosing the following:

Letter:

Under s78 CCA 1974,following receipt of your £1 fee, we are obliged to send you a copy of the executed agreement and of any other document referred to in it together with a statement showing (a) the state of the account,((b) the amount currently payable under the agreement and © the amount and due date of payments which will become due if you do not draw further on the account.

 

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)Regulations 1983 explains what must be included in the copy agreement. Regulation 3 provides that the copy may omit certain information, including the signature box and your name and address. Regulation 7 provides that if the agreement has been varied the copy must include a statement if the terms of the agreement as varied (strange grammar:()

In accordance with this, we enclose the following:

1. A copy of the executed agreement as required by s78 (this is a copy of your agreement with the signature box and name and address omitted as required by Regulation 3)

2. A statement of the terms of the agreement as varied as required by Regulation 7.

3. Although we are not required to do so under s78 CCA 1974, I enclose a copy of your original signed agreement.

Yours sincerely etc

All they have enclosed is fax/photocopies copies of Argos Card Executed T&C's with a date of 16.3.07 on the top!

 

I have read a lot of replies that CAG posters have received in response to CCA requests but do not recall reading anything worded in the same way. I presume thay are trying to baffle me?

 

So I am hoping the advice will be to send an "Account in Dispute" letter next?

Edited January 13, 2009 by nuthatch

[steven4064]

In accordance with this, we enclose the following:

1. A copy of the executed agreement as required by s78 (this is a copy of your agreement with the signature box and name and address omitted as required by Regulation 3)

This never ceases to amaze me. Regulation 3 allows them to send a copy of an agreement with personal details removed - it certainly doesn't require it!

 

It strikes me that the easiest way to comply is just to photocopy your agreement. (All this stuff about 'ture' copies dates to the 1840s ahen copies were made onparchment with a quill pen - an option which would still be open to them ). The fact that they spout this nonesense must indicate that they don't actually have a copy of your agreement.

[nuthatch]

Thanks Steven.

So should I just send the "Account in Dispute Letter" or just leave it as they have still not complied with my CCA request and take it as read that they do not have the agreement.

I am at present in a DMP with the CCCS and they will not remove creditors who do not produce a CCA from the creditor list.

All I want to do is negotiate a reasonable full and final settlement deal with all my creditors, none of which have been able to produce one up to now.

[steven4064]

They have complied with your s78 request - what they have sent is allowed by the regs as a valid reply.

 

It would seem that they don't have an enforceable agreement. THat gives you some leverage. It may be worth writing and thanking them for their reply butpointing out that they have not sent anything that is enforceable. the logic is

 

1. the agreement is not properly executed as defined in s61(1) of the CCA 1974

2. it can therefore only be enforced by court ordre under s65 of the CCA 1974

3. A court cannot enforce thisparticular agreement because s127(3) says they can only enforce an agreement under s65 if it has the debtors signature and the prescribed terms in the same document. The document they have sent you has neither.

 

Tell them, that as no agreement exists between you, you owe them nothing.

 

Head the letter "I acknowledge no debt to your company"

[nuthatch]

Just a couple more questions before I send the letter off to Homebase.

 

Does it matter that the document they sent me is a copy of Argos T&Cs and mentions Homebase knowhere? The covering letter is on "Homebase" headed paper.

And, the letter they sent says they have sent me a copy of my original signed agreement which they haven't so should I mention that in my reply?

[nuthatch]

Bump.

[steven4064]

I would just send the letter as outlined in my post

[nuthatch]

I finally got this letter sent. My ongoing health problems made me put it on the back burner as I was making payments (very low because on sick pay) via CCCS. What has incensed me is that, this month, they have suddenly started adding interest.

[nuthatch]

My letter as outlined by steven4064 was delivered and signed for on April 30. I have electronic proof of delivery.

Today a letter has been delivered from Homebase dated May 5 demanding arrears and stating that any further reminders will incur a £12 charge.

I presume they cannot read or prefer to ignore my last letter.

 

Should I send an "Account in Dispute" letter now or just ignore it?

[steven4064]

THe account isn't technically in dispute because they have comlied with your s78 request.

 

Any £12 charge will of course be unlawful. Have they added such charges in the past? If so, you can start a claim, thus disputing the amount of their claim and putting the account into dispute on that basis.

[nuthatch]

Thanks for that.

In the past, before I entered into the DMP via CCCS, charges had been applied but I have not sent a SAR before so don't know how much.

So would it be worth doing that first? If the charges are a big chunk, I am prepared to offer a F&F based on the actual amount owed.

Due to my personal circumstances (still off sick and on half pay) it will take many years for me to clear this account.

 

It seems strange that they have decided to start adding charges from the day my previous letter reached them.

[nuthatch]

Bump

[steven4064]

Yes send a SAR

[nuthatch]

Thanks steven4064. I will do that.

 

Stupid letter from Homebase today.

 

I acknowledge your request for a copy of your Credit Agreeement, however this service requires a fee of £1."

I have a letter from Jan 08 acknowledging receipt of my £1 fee for the CCA!!!

 

Should I just write back with a copy of this letter and tell them they are idiots or ignore it?

As previously posted, I have already written to Homebase to tell them that the documents they sent to me following my CCA request in Nov 08 are unenforceable.

[steven4064]

Wriet back with a copy of the letter (I wouldn't call them idiots though - it tends to get their backs up )

[nuthatch]

Wrote back with copy of letter and received reply admitting that they were idiots. Well, didn't quite say that but that is what it read to me. Letter said thay had supplied me with what I needed which they hadn't.

Strangely, letters from Homebase now arrived weekly with charges and interest.

Sent SAR 2 weeks ago and...by return got a default notice.

 

Now, am I being cynical or do you think they are desperately trying to move this debt onto a debt collector before the 40+2 days are up and they are in default because they have either lost all my info or they know they can't produce my CCA at all?

 

Please tell me I am right and not just hopeful.

[nuthatch]

Would appreciate a comment on last post please.

[nuthatch]

My SAR arrived at the weekend. It includes my Application form and a huge sheaf of notes about my account but no CCA as far as I can see.

Please tell me what my next move should be.

I did tell CCCS that Homebase were adding interest and charges and I saw no point in carrying on paying them as my payment each month was a third of what they are adding on.

I thought about writing to Homebase and telling them that last year I was on £30000 and I am now on 2 small pensions. I am not capable of holding down a job at the moment. I cannot get JSA because the amount of my pensions is too much.

My basic living expenses are only just covered by my pensions.

Following my husband's death last year, my Mother's descent into Dementia and trying to sort things out after a big house fire plus a prolonged recovery from surgery I have tried to return to work twice but just could not do it so I am at home now.

I cannot make rational decisions at all as life seems such a pointless exercise and everything is a huge hurdle to overcome.

[nuthatch]

Bump