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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Problem With Carpet


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Hi, wonder if anyone can tell me how I should go with this?

 

We bought a carpet for the stairs and a small landing from a local retailer who is a member of the Carpet Foundation. They came out to measure up and we agreed a price fitted. It is fairly good quality patterned carpet (I had the sample) and he did ask if I thought it was an overall pattern. It is, so I agreed. He told me that stairs are always fitted in a few pieces but I wouldn't be able to tell it was separate pieces.

 

They fitted it Tuesday and were surprised there was a large piece left but whatever, said it might come in. We paid the fitter in cash and obtained a receipt.

 

Later on Tuesday when I was cleaning up the bits and fluff, I noticed they hadn't matched up the pattern on the 3rd stair up so looked a bit more closely and on 6 stairs near the top, the carpet is upside down and again, no pattern match. I presume that's why the fitter had a load of carpet left.

 

Called the shop and the guy who came to measure came this morning. I was close to losing it I can tell you. First he groped at the pile on the landing and on the top half of the stairs and said the pile was in the right direction. It was only after I pointed out repeatedly that the pile might be but the pattern isn't that he agreed something wasn't right.

 

I then said the pattern had not been matched anywhere and he said I'd agreed it was an allover random pattern. No, I did not, I said it was allover (meaning that there wasn't anything too prominent that needed centering) but even I know that the pattern should have been matched. He took the details from the back of the sample for the order and it stated clearly that there was a 400 mm pattern repeat. These are professionals, how can he now say it's random and blame me?

 

The fitter is calling back on Monday "to put things right" - yeah okay! What's he going to do? Turn the upside down bits the right way (which won't match up to the pattern on the rest) and put a new bit at the bottom from the big lump we have left?

 

The guy today treated me as if I was stupid - big mistake!! Seriously, if you bought patterned wallpaper with a 400 mm pattern match and someone stuck it on as it came off the roll and got a piece or two upside down while they were at it, would you be happy? That's what they have done to my carpet and had the cheek to say it's my fault.

 

Sorry for the rant but I think this will end up going further than a "put things right" on Monday.

 

Any help on who to go to next is appreciated.

Edited by ruralgirl
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Before jumping the gun you should give the fitter a chance to fix it and if not satisfactory, then start the complaints ball rolling.
Thanks, I had no intention of jumping the gun and I will give the fitter a chance to fix it but I KNOW already that it won't be possible. The carpet has been fitted in 4 pieces (two of them upside down) but with such a big pattern match, 400 mm, even if he flips the upside down pieces the pattern will not match at the bulkhead or with the piece fitted the right way up. Then there's the bottom 3 stairs which are the right way up but the pattern is about 300 mm out.

 

There's some carpet left but not enough to line the pattern up in 5 places.

 

I'm not trying to be pedantic here by complaining about a couple of mm - the pattern is a foot out if you want it in old money.

 

I will follow the correct complaint procedure, what I was asking is to whom?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hope you don't mind me asking but I need a bit more advice now.

 

The carpet fitter did call on the Monday before Christmas as arranged. He looked and said he thought he'd done a good job. When I pointed out that the pattern was upside down on the 2 top pieces he couldn't see it. He groped the pile (as his mate did on the previous Friday) and said it was okay. I pointed out the upside down bits again and he thought they were right and it was the bottom 2 pieces that were wrong. He looked at the bit we had left, said it would do 6 stairs and he'd replace the bottom half with that. Err, so it would all be upside down?

 

I then pointed out that even if he did that, the pattern at the joins would not match. When in a hole, stop digging? Oh no, not this guy. Couldn't make the next bit up. He said that it was because it was not British carpet, British carpet comes in yards and he could match that but this was in metres and that was the problem.

 

Then he said it wasn't suitable carpet for stairs, it was made for a big room. When I pointed out that his measuring-up colleague should have told me that he said would return with his colleague after the Christmas break and would phone to arrange an appointment. I'm still waiting!

 

I'm pretty certain the owner of the company knows nothing about this (these 2 muppets are employees). Should I now write to the owner with my complaint informally or step up to a bit more official?

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Take lots of good quality photos. Contact the owner and see if you get any joy.

Start making notes of all of the conversations you have had right from the beginnng.

If the owner doesn't sort it out then write them a letter telling them that you consider that they have repudiated the contract and that they should remove the carpet and give you a full refund.

Give them 7 days to do this or else you will sue.

 

Afte 7 days, sue.

Let us know who it is for the benefit of others.

 

If you buy our small claims guide and small claims kit you will find the suing part relatively straightforward. You can buy these items elsewhere but it helps us if you buy them through us.

 

Don't bother taking any action if you are not prepared to go the whole hog. Don't make empty threats

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And I was hoping for a good outcome with this. I was in carpet business (retail) for years and certainly seen & heard some things, but have never heard such tosh from a carpet fitter!

 

Follow FB's advice and contact the owner.

 

The only potential issue I can see is if it gets 'sticky', there could be an argument about who is responsible for sorting it out. Did you get a written estimate from the shop? What was written on it re the fitting. As you paid the fitter direct, the carpet shop might say you've got to take it up with him. But if it is on your estimate, I would say the shop needs to sort it. But let's not jump the gun. The owner may not be aware of what the fitter has said, so give them a chance first. Personally, I would write to them, outlining the details, but try not to be too emotional (as per your posts). Stick to the facts ;)

 

Do keep us informed.

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I'm pretty certain the owner of the company knows nothing about this (these 2 muppets are employees)

 

Maybe not, most fitters are usually self-employed and contracted to various shops etc. Especially as you paid him direct. What does it say on the receipt? The fitter's details or the shop?

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Sue them both in the same claim. Let them sort it out between them. You sue the shop in contract and in the alternative on their negligent recommendation of the fitter.

You sue the fitter in contract and in the alternative in negligence for his poor standard of fitting.

 

However, my money is on the shop being liable.

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And I was hoping for a good outcome with this. I was in carpet business (retail) for years and certainly seen & heard some things, but have never heard such tosh from a carpet fitter!

 

Follow FB's advice and contact the owner.

 

The only potential issue I can see is if it gets 'sticky', there could be an argument about who is responsible for sorting it out. Did you get a written estimate from the shop? What was written on it re the fitting. As you paid the fitter direct, the carpet shop might say you've got to take it up with him. But if it is on your estimate, I would say the shop needs to sort it. But let's not jump the gun. The owner may not be aware of what the fitter has said, so give them a chance first. Personally, I would write to them, outlining the details, but try not to be too emotional (as per your posts). Stick to the facts ;)

 

Do keep us informed.

Thank you so much, I'll reply to your post/advice first.

 

It's a local company, Viv Date Carpets (Pontardawe) Ltd. of Pontardawe (near Swansea). They claim to have their own 'in house' fitters and all prices quoted in the shop includes fitting. They are members of the Carpet Foundation.

 

They are all on first name terms, Mark (the guy who measured up and gave me the verbal quote) arranged the fitting date and said I should pay their fitter. The invoice is in the name of the shop and the fitter (Nigel) signed it as a receipt for the £355 we paid him/them.

 

I have now written a letter to the owner - addressed it to "The Proprietor" as my neighbour was at school with Viv Date and she thinks he now lives in Spain. I know, you can laugh but that's how it is here.

 

I have given facts only, no emotion or 'he said/she said' stuff so will see what happens.

Edited by ruralgirl
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Take lots of good quality photos. Contact the owner and see if you get any joy.

Start making notes of all of the conversations you have had right from the beginnng.

If the owner doesn't sort it out then write them a letter telling them that you consider that they have repudiated the contract and that they should remove the carpet and give you a full refund.

Give them 7 days to do this or else you will sue.

 

Afte 7 days, sue.

Let us know who it is for the benefit of others.

 

If you buy our small claims guide and small claims kit you will find the suing part relatively straightforward. You can buy these items elsewhere but it helps us if you buy them through us.

 

Don't bother taking any action if you are not prepared to go the whole hog. Don't make empty threats

Thanks. I actually took some photos as soon as I spotted the faults because I wanted to email them to my son for his opinion.

 

I am so disappointed with it - my husband saved up the £355 from his DLA - we don't have much money but we wanted a 'proper' job on the stairs and trusted a shop who are a member of the Carpet Foundation.

 

Sorry for the emotion in my posts but I was so angry. First the rubbish job and then the subsequent rubbish by the 2 employees. Both thought it was a 1st class job until the faults were pointed out. Then the measure-up guy blamed me and the fitter blamed the measure-up guy.

 

I'll leave it until I get a reply from the owner/manager. Until then, I still have my messy carpet with photo evidence.

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Hi Ruralgirl,

 

Can definately see what you mean in your photo (tho I can also see why a man might think that's ok :D).

 

The fact that the fitters are employed by the shop & the receipt was from the shop is good news for you, I would say. You're more likely to get resolution from them than just the fitter. Compose your letter, post it on here if you want some 'impartial eyes' to be cast over it before sending, and, as Bankfodder said, they can sort it out between themselves.

 

The owner lives in Spain? - blimey, we never did that well out of it! Mind you, we wouldn't be trying to pull the wool over your eyes like this lot seem to be doing. Perhaps that's why!

 

Do keep us informed.

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