VG - Vs Northen Rock - Charging Order

[Von Greenbach]

I obtained this:

 

Charging Order - an order of a court that a charge be placed on a property so that, when it is sold, the first part of the proceeds of the sale go to pay off an outstanding debt. A charging order effectively turns an unsecured loan into a secured loan. The existance of a charging order is noted on the deeds of the property in question. The Charging Orders Act 1979 allows creditors with a high court judgemnet or county court judgment the ability to secure the debt to assets. A charging order can't be made unless payments have been defaulted on a CCJ.

 

From this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/161658-z-debt-terminology.html

 

I'm confused with this part: A charging order can't be made unless payments have been defaulted on a CCJ.

 

I'm on a DMP with CCCS, I missed one payment with permission from CCCS due to an unexpected high bill, because of that Northern Rock wrote stating that I have defaulted on the agreement with CCCS and they have applied for a CO I suspect they'll go through the CCJ process first, I had court papers come and filled them in.

So, if a CCJ is granted, and I continue to pay via my DMP, will NR be able to obtain a CO saying I’ve defaulted on the ORIGINAL agreement i.e. my official monthly payments, before I got into financial difficulties?

Trust the above makes sense.

[Von Greenbach]

When is the court date ?

I've not had a court date, I completed the paperword and forwarded it to CCCS for completion.

Was this a loan or a credit card ? When was it taken out ?

It was a loan, taken out around end of 2006.

Has the bank issued you with default notices ?

Yes, I had one sometime ago.

The more info you give, the more advice you'll get

Many thanks

[Von Greenbach]

A couple of months ago I received some court papers behalf of one of my creditors, I sent the papers of to CCCS who completed them and offered what I've been paying for the last 12 months.

 

I heard nothing since then until today when I received further court papers saying "Judgement For The Claimant" I was not given an option to attend court and explain my reasons for a DMP, I have another 6 creditors who all seem OK with my DMP arrangement, apart from this one.

 

The creditor has refused the offer from CCCS even though I've been paying them the same amount for the last 12 months, I've phoned the court and they say the creditor is after a charging order, I've forwarded the papers of to CCCS to deal with, although I've no idea what the next step is.

 

Anyone with any advice as this is scaring me to death.

[Von Greenbach]

Hi

I know it sometimes difficult to get the right advice, but please do not do as CCCS or other DMP companies say, as this is a sure fire way to get a CCJ

I done what I thought was right, I thought if the court had confirmation from CCCS re my I&E they would refuse the claimants application.

 

I doubt it's any good me requesting a CCCA as I only took the debt out in 2006, and I remember chaising them at the time as the loan had not entered my account, they said they were waiting for my credit agreement, which turned up the following day.

[Von Greenbach]

Bump for any experienced members advice

[Von Greenbach]

Did you/CCCS apply for a time order?

Hi rory

 

I don't know what that means, so I'll say no.

[Von Greenbach]

It's a personal unsecured loan taken out in 2006, it's with Northern Rock.

 

When I spoke to the court today, they said NR want a CO as it will take to long to pay back under my DMP agreement.

[Von Greenbach]

Okay, I think it would be a good idea to give National Debtline a phone for some further support (Tel: 0808 808 4000)

OK, I'll do that later on today.

Have NR applied for an interim charging order yet??

I don't know, some months ago I had a court paper come through from the court which I sent off to CCCS, they completed it and sent it back to the court.

If you wish to defend the interim charging order being made final, objections must be made to the claimant no less than seven days before the hearing. The letter with your arguments must be sent recorded delivery to both creditor and court. ?

OK

A time order is only a valid option if your agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act (which yours is).?

Yes, as I owe over £20.000 and had my loan in 2006.

You can ask the court to consider a time order on its own initiative before making a charging order final. The court will usually look into the position of the creditor as well as your situation when deciding whether a time order is ‘just’. This means the court will look at the reasons you took out the loan, consider how long and how much you have repaid to date, look at how you have attempted to resolve the issue to date and the creditor’s actions. ?

OK

Does anyone else have a beneficial interest in your property?

Yes, my OH, we have a joint mortgage, strange thing is my OH also has a personal loan with NR, NR wrote to CCCS agreeing her DMP offer until 2009 very similiar amout to me (We have a joint DMP) hope that makes sense.

 

Why NR have targeted "Me" and not "Us" I don't understand.

[Von Greenbach]

Just an update, NR refused my monthly offer via my DMP through CCCS.

 

The case in now being transferred through to my local county court for a hearing, no date has yet been set, it was only last week the papers were being transferred.

 

I've been paying NR via my DMP for 12 months now, in view of an imminent court hearing, is it worth my applying for my CCA? (this personal loan is only around 18 months old, so I guess there is a valid CCA somewhere)

[Von Greenbach]

Hello rory

 

I'm not sure if this is going to make sense, but I'll give it ago.

 

As NR have refused my offer of payment, they were granted a "Determination Order" I've appealed against that and now waiting for a hearing, however, I've found out today that when NR were granted the "Determination Order" a CCJ came with it

 

How can that be?

 

As yet, I've not had the opportunity to defend myself, I'm confused by it all, maybe I don't have the right to defend myself as I ow the money, which I've never denied as I've never missed a payment whilst on my DMP.

 

I spoke with CCCS and I'm informed because I've admitted the debt by offering a monthly payment, the CCJ is automatic.

 

The bottom line, NR are after a CO, I find it amazing that what was an unsecured loan can now be turned into a "Secured loan"

[Von Greenbach]

I can't believe the CCCS have said that !!

42man, they did say that honestly.

what about disputing it due to excesssive charges

I don't know if I've had any excessive charges.

non production of a valid CCA, etc etc !!

I've not requested a CCA, as this debt is only around 18 months old.

 

(Thanks for your help)

[Von Greenbach]

I'm afraid so, yes

OK, I suffer with a psychotic disability, had I been warned about receiving a CCJ I could have prepared myself psychologically.

Have you applied for a time order?

 

No rory, I looked at your previous link within this thread re time orders, I don't digest / retain information very well, although I did speak to CCCS about a time order, and was informed it's something there not experienced with.

 

I may get critized here, but I am unable to deal with this due to my psychological disability, I relay on CCCS to guide me, and deal with my credotors that being said I don’t want to rock the boat with CCCS as I’m frightened in case they throw me off my DMP.

 

I’m unable to handle stress / anxiety very well, I have informed NR of this, yet they’ve proceeded down this road causing me countless sleepless nights.

 

One other issue that bothers me of my 9 creditors, only NR are taking legal action I’m scared in case the others decide to follow NR.

 

Although I’ve given brief details about my medical issues, I must make it clear I’m not after sympathy or attention.

 

I’ve never been so scared as what I am at the moment in case I lose my home, I’ve never missed a mortgage payment / utility bill / council tax, and yet NR can have this detrimental effect on me for what is after all an unsecured debt.

 

I’m grateful to you all for the advice you’ve given me.

[Von Greenbach]

did you admit the debt in the claim papers e.g. making an offer of payments?

CCCS completed the paperwork, I've never recieved a copy of what was said, but CCCS did make an offer (The same amount they've been paying for the last 12 months)

Or did you state that you would defend?

Since NR refused the offer and were granted a "Determination Order" I've now appealed against the Determination Order and I'm waiting for a hearing.

[Von Greenbach]

Can I ask, do you have children and if so how old are they?

No rory, just me & my OH.

[Von Greenbach]

Hello rory

 

We have a joint mortgage, should either one of us pass on, the other becomes the sole beneficiary.

 

I believe this is our situation:

Joint tenants is where the property is owned by you both but neither of you own a particular share in the property. In this situation it is just normally assumed that each person owns half the property

Edited November 19, 2008 by Von Greenbach
Paragraph Added

[Von Greenbach]

Hello Supa

Are the hearings for the Redetermination and Charging Order being held together ?

I don't fully understand what's taking place, I know NR were granted an Determination or something, and it's that what I've appealed against, I'm waiting for a hearing now.

How many other creditors do you have ?

In total we have 10 creditors, this breaks down as

 

2 Overdrafts - so excluded from CCA

 

2 DCAs unable to produce a valid CCA

 

6 Creditors / DCAs which are loans / CC / store card debts.

 

We are paying ALL 10 creditors via CCCS

[Von Greenbach]

Have you received any correspondence from Northern Rock or Land Registry informing you of an application for a Charging Order ?

At this stage no.

 

May I ask another question, NR have been granted a CCJ against me when they were granted the determination, I was not aware of this, however, I'm receiving spam mail from various companies informing me of my CCJ (this is how I became aware I had a CCJ)

 

These companies are offering "Financial Advice" I'm registered with MPS (Mail preference service) to stop junk mail, are these companies allowed to send me mail?

[Von Greenbach]

rory, thank you for the link, I'm going to register my complaint with them, the first letter I just ignored, however the second letter from a different company is not on.

 

Many thanks.

[Von Greenbach]

I'm requesting my CCA on this a/c, do I send my request to NR or Eversheds who are the solicitors acting for NR.

 

Edit: I'm not signing the CCA request, but can I type my nmae or do I actually have to print it?

Edited November 23, 2008 by Von Greenbach
Paragraph Added

[Von Greenbach]

Hi VG,

 

The CCA request goes to Eversheds.

 

Just type your name.............there is no need to sign it or actually print it.

 

And send Recorded Delivery.

Yo Supa

 

Ta, do I need to send recorded delivery if I'm including a postal Order?

 

I'm sending 6 CCA requests, recorded delivery could work out quite expensive.

[Von Greenbach]

Alternatively, if you cannot afford to go for Recorded Delivery, you could take your CCA requests to the Post Office counter and ask for a "Certificate of Postage".

 

Any letter posted to a company holding a Consumer credit licence is deemed served (delivered) after 2 days using a 1st Class stamp or after 4 days for 2nd class stamp.

Hey, WoW

 

I've never heard of this before, is it free of charge?

 

What is it exactly, do I just hand over the sealed envelope (6 of them) to the postmaster?

 

Sorry if I sound thick here.

 

I was going to go for a stroll later and put them in the post box, should I go to the post office instead tomorrow?

 

I tried to give you some rep points, but it's told me to be generous with others first!!!!

 

It keeps saying that to me!!!

[Von Greenbach]

OK, I'm going to do that, just for my own benefit, is the mail treated like "Recorded Delivery" if so, what's that point of paying for RD?

[Von Greenbach]

Forgot to ask, do I tell the postmaster they are CCA?

[Von Greenbach]

I know this method is a lot cheaper, and you get proof of postage, however, im pretty sure you dont get proof of delivery.

 

To be honest, the royal mail these days is a joke, the only reliable method with them is Special Delivery, which costs over £4 per item, i only use it for very important docs, the next best thing is recorded signed for, i think about £1.40, which should get there, but its a lottery as to whether you can get confirmation.

 

No you dont tell the postmaster what your letter is about.

Thank you CCM, I nearly called you CCA

 

OK, well I've never used this facility before, so just for a test, I'm going to give it ago.

[Von Greenbach]

How up to date are NR with the prescribed terms in a CCA?

 

I've read on here about some companies like EGG for example as one company who are almost 100% perfect with CCA, compared to other companies who seem a little "careless" curious where NR fall.

 

The reason I ask, NR are in the process of taking legal action to try and obtain a CO, I've requested my CCA from Eversheds for this personal loan which is around 18 months / 2 years old.