mjanet v lloyds :** WON ** UNCONDITIONALLY

[Janet-M]

Wow lloydstsb are quick .....only 8 working days ........ to say I can't have my money.

 

6th March Data protection request sent by email

 

7th March email recieved back saying they recieved it

 

8th march email recieved (dated 15th march) saying they will send info requested

 

10th March I sent another D.P.A request by email for my C/C details

 

10th March email back saying they recieved it

 

13th March email recieved saying they will send my C/C statements in

conjuction with my bank statement request

 

14th March bank statements recieved by post / manual intervention notes... no manual intervention when charges deducted

 

14th March letter before action sent by email , giving them 14 days to

repay me ( yes I know I missed a step , lesson learnt don't do important stuff when 3 kids are playing up around you )

 

14th March email back saying they recieved it.

 

15th March standard letter back by email saying ... NO.. refering me to banking ombudsman

 

15th March email sent saying I will let the courts decide on the legalities of your charges

 

When the 14 days are up I will start my claim , unless someone thinks because I missed a step I should do something else ?

 

waiting for my C/C info now but I'm not really exppecting to see any charges on them.

[Janet-M]

16th March bank replys by email .........

 

Unfortunately I am unable to add any further information to my letter dated xx March 2006 and can only refer you to the terms and conditions of your account. However, I respect that you have your own opinion about our charges.

 

This letter is the bank's final response, which means that if you remain dissatisfied you may refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

 

this time enclosing a leaflet outlining how to contact them. Didn't think he understood me when I told him I will let the court decide on the legalities.

So now again back to waiting until my deadline I gave them.It gives me a week to read up on how to form a claim.Make some room for me on the litigations in progress thread ...it looks like I'l be joining it next week.

[Janet-M]

Hi Kevin , yes I was too impatient too the address I used was [email protected] as you can see they recieve it then they forward it on .If you already have a named person that you are dealing with just put his name and any reference number in the subject line .. thats all I done.

[Janet-M]

Still have not recieved my CC information applied for under the DPR request so I am just about to send them a reminder that the time is ticking ..They have informed me that the last letter was their final response ,but they still have to send me the information I requested.Also whilst I know everything is done automatically by their pc's one thing I have noticed is every time it comes close to when my CC statement is due to be produced the payments I make become slow ie. Sunday 13th March I pay my balance by bank transfer it's taken out of my account before midnight the same night but shows Mondays date it's now 6 full days since they took it and my balance is still not cleared.I have just put a complaint in asking them why it's taking so long if it's an automated payment ? hoping somewhere in their reply they tell me it is done by a pc.

[Janet-M]

update

still not had acknowledgement of my complaint and my balance is still not cleared 8 days after they took the money out of my account .CC info still not recieved.

14 days I gave them to repay me are up tomorrow so claim due to go in.

[Janet-M]

Just phoned my branch to find out when my account was actually opened and was told 1957 , I protested and was assured it was correct .Only problem being I was not born for quite a few years later .Funnily enough they now agree ( after confirming it with a manager ) it is the wrong date but now can not tell me when it was.

[Janet-M]

I have had to phone the banks head office many times past few days ( nothing to do with claim ) and they talk about 'manual intervention' a lot now .Seen as David Just keeps sending out letters saying he doesn't understand what is meant by it I think the staff have been well coached in the CC customer services.Also seen as they keep charging everyone using that as an excuse they have just said to me '' even though we have used manual intervention on your account please let me know personally if you occur charges and I will see they are refunded to you''

[Janet-M]

Claim put into court today , claim amount £324.34 including interest

 

finally recieved a copy of my CC statements .As I suspected no charges have been applied.

 

Also asked usher if I could sit in on a case they prefered to tell me and show me an empty room lol . I then asked very politely are the public not allowed in and was told yes it's still classed as an open court as long as neither party object to me being there , some contradiction there BUT I was on best behaviour so never pointed it out .Been told to come back on Wednesday and they will ask permission from ' both sides ' of a case ,as well as judge.As long as theres no objections I can sit in , he said sarcastically you can bring a few friends to lol . I think they where VERY suprised I asked .

[Janet-M]

UPDATE

 

Claim deemed served 9th April

 

Acknowledged with intention to defend 18th April

 

defence recieved by the court 3rd May

 

Defence recieved by me 6th May ( from court )

 

LLoyds told court they where unable to send the defence direct to me as they didn't know my address .Now in all fairness to Lloyds the fact my address and account number is on my claim and in light of the fact I have only had my account with them for 30 yrs then it is quite understandable they wouldn't know my address ... NOT

[Janet-M]

Mjanet - don't keep us in suspense!!! What did their defence say??!!

 

I don't have a scanner to scan it in and it's to long to type out BUT as soon as I find someone who can scan it in for me I will put it in here .Hopefully over the weekend.

[Janet-M]

allocation questionaire recieved and has to be sent back by 8th June, on my to do list for tonight.

Sorry couldn't show the defence as no scanner but it is just the usual s*** about it being a service and I have not broke my contract.

[Janet-M]

allocation questionaire has been sent back .Will let you know if I hear any more

 

sent LBA over my DPAR on 6.6.06 ( just realised the date lol ) This is for a telephone call I had with their call centre .Reciept recieved for my request then they just ignored it.

[Janet-M]

2 letters recieved from solicitors , first one telling me their defence and how confident they are of winning.

 

Main points:

 

1) the fees you are seeking to recoup are properely incorporated into your contract with the bank.When opening your account, you were provided with details of the banks charges and by using your account, you accepted those charges;and

 

2) when you make a payment (whether by cheque,debit card or any other means ) from your account when you have insufficent funds to cover it, you are effectively making a request to the bank for an increased overdraft ( I don't have an overdraft so how can I increase it ) .It is for the bank to decide whether or not to accept this request.If it meets your request,or indeed where the request is declined and the item is returned to your account , you must pay the necassary charges.The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breech of contract.No breach of contract has occurred between you and the bank ; the bank is merely providing another service service, for wich there is a charge.The charges are not penalties and therefore need not to be a pre-estimate of the banks loss .

 

-----------------------------------------------------

2nd letter

 

 

Without Prejudice Confidential and Privileged

 

 

Dear Madam,

As you will be aware from out open letter, we act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the bank).This letter is marked without prejudice and is confidential and privileged which means it will not be produced in court and is confidential between you, us and the Bank.

 

In our open letter we have set out details of the banks defence and we should inform you that the bank does not accept that there is any merit in your claim. However, regrettably the costs of resolving a dispute can easily exceed the amount in issue regardless of who

‘‘wins’’ at the end of the day. The Bank is therefore willing to settle your claim on the following basis:

 

1 The amount your clam (?) , £324.34,will be credited to your account.

 

2 As you do not have an overdraft limit on this account, you must maintain your account in credit.

3 Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim and any further claims you have or may have against the Bank arising out of or in anyway connected to this claim.

 

4 These terms and correspondence entered into in reaching a settlement, of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between you, us and the Bank

 

 

Please let us know whether you are prepared to settle on these terms. If so, and you comply with the conditions set out , the Bank will arrange to credit the amount of your claim to your account.

 

If you are willing to settle, please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by it’s terms, including the requirement of confidentiality, and return it to us

 

Yours faithfully

[Janet-M]

MY REPLY

 

 

Without Prejudice

Dear Sirs,

I would like to inform you that I have received both of your letters and note your points. However like you I am also quite confident that I can prove my case in court and prove that these are in fact penalties that you are trying to cloak as a service charge. I am also very confident that a judge will also see it this way. Whilst I have to mitigate my loss I am prepared to accept the figure you quote along with my costs of £50 that you have excluded. I will accept this in full and final settlement of this claim. I reject all other conditions you have attached unless your client would like to negotiate a payment for this extra service you are asking from me ,as a separate agreement

.

I will continue my claim against your clients until such time that your client accepts my terms and has paid the amount I have asked for into my account.

May I also point out that there is no unilateral imposition of confidentiality in these circumstances as you must fully realise and for you to say otherwise is an abusive deception .I will pass any more disinformative correspondence from you to the Law Society who no doubt will decide whether this is a matter of discipline or merely requires more Continuing Education points.

Yours faithfully

[Janet-M]

reply from solicitors

 

Without Prejudice Confidential and Privileged

 

Dear Madame,

 

Thank you for your letter of XXXX

 

The Bank is willing to make an updated offer of settlement on the following basis:

 

1) The amount of your clam ( ? again lol ) , £XXXX .will be credited to your account.

 

2) As you have no overdraft limit on this account, you must maintain your account in credit.

 

3) Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

 

Please let us know whether you are prepared to settle the matter on these terms. If so ,and you comply with the conditions set out, the Bank will arrange to credit the amount of your claim to your account,

 

If you are willing to settle, please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by its terms and return it to us.

 

We look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

If anyone wants any clams they are £300 each :grin:

 

Not decided on my reply yet but it will be something along the lines of get lost reasons being ....I know my responsiblities re my account and you aint setting conditions to paying me my own money that was unlawfully taken and stop telling me letters are confidential and priviliged when quite clearly they are not

 

The Bank just HAS to have the last word when I am sueing them , no I don't think so.

 

 

Will post my reply when I think it up

[Janet-M]

Thanks for taking the time to do that reload , very much appreciated

 

 

@ sharemaster2 Thank you it's the tone of the letters , words they use like 'comply' and the condition no 2 :o who the hell do they think they are .they have got away with all this for far to long ,now caught out and STILL want to have the last word.

As for the solicitors saying things are privileged and confidential well they read this site, I have put 2 of these letters in full above so what does that tell you ?

[Janet-M]

Decided to just do a short reply back , THANK YOU reload for taking the time to post that reply for me it is very much appreciated

 

MY REPLY

 

 

Without Prejudice

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for your letter. I do not accept your updated offer. I am however prepared to accept £374.24 as this is the total of my claim inclusive of my costs. I will accept this in full and final settlement of this claim .I will not agree to any conditions.

 

May I also point out I am fully aware of my responsibilities over the running of my account as I have proved for the past 3yrs.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Changed it slightly before I sent it. ( sent by email )

 

 

 

Without Prejudice

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

Thank you for your letter of XXXXX . I do not accept your updated offer. I am however prepared to accept £374.24 as this is the total of my claim, inclusive of my costs. I will accept this in full and final settlement of this claim .I will not agree to comply to any conditions.

 

May I also point out I am fully aware of my responsibilities over the running of my account as I have proved for the past 3yrs.

 

Yours faithfully

[Janet-M]

Was unable to update this thread until now , sorry

 

letter recieved from solicitors

 

Dear Madame,

 

Thank you for your email of 19th June 2006.

 

Please note that the court rules do not provide for you to claim your costs.The bank is therefore unwilling to include an aditional £50.00 in offer of its settlement.

 

In any event ,the Bank has already offered to refund the full amount of your claim and this figure cannot be increased without making an application to court.

 

In light of the above, please sign and return a copy of our letter of 14th June 2006.As soon as we recieve this,the Bank will arrange to credit the amount of your claim to your account.

 

we look forward to hearing from you

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I then recieved a letter from the court saying that the judge had made an order saying if the defendent did not serve an allocation questionaire on me/court by 7th July then I will win by default

 

 

I then recieved another letter from solicitors

 

Dear Madame,

Further to our letter of 21st June 2006 ,we look forward to recieving a signed copy of our letter of 14th June 2006.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any queries relating to the banks offer of settlement in the above matter.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

my reply

 

 

Without Prejudice

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

thank you for your correspondence dated 22 June 2006 in which you advised me in respect of my claim agianst you in the County Court that "court rules do not provide for me to claim my costs" I will forward your correspondence to the Law Society accordingly.

 

I note your determination therefore that the bank is not lible for the costs of my litigation to date. Litigation, that I may remind you, I entered into, as a result of your previous failure to enter into sincere dialogue with me to resolve the dispute.

 

Might I take this opportunity to refute your assertion that I will have to make a further application to the court in respect of the settlement figure I expect from you, as I have already clearly instructed the court as to the total claim including costs.

 

The only application I shall make to the court, is for you to be entered onto the register of vexatious litigants for your insistence on allowing this matter to proceed to litigation where mediation and settlement could have been avoided without the involvement of the courts. I shall also copy your correspondence to both the Court Manager and the FSA for reference purposes.

 

Yours truly,

[Janet-M]

I don't mind at all only problem being I've already sent it :o

[Janet-M]

recieved 5th July by email

 

Without Prejudice - Confidential and Privileged

 

Dear Madam

 

Thank you for your email of 4 July 2006.

 

We would suggest that you read Part 27 of the White Book in relation to the small claims track generally. In particular, please note CPR 27.14 in relation to costs on the small claims track.

 

We should also like to remind you that our letter of 21 June 2006 was marked "Without Prejudice" which means that it can not be produced in Court.

 

Please note that it is now 21 days since our client offered to refund the full amount of your claim. We would therefore question your assertion that it is our client who is "allowing the matter to proceed to litigation".

 

Please sign and return a copy of our letter of 14 June 2006 as a matter of urgency.

 

We look forward to hearing from you shortly.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Martineau Johnson

 

MY REPLY (by email )

 

Without prejudice

Dear Sir ,

May I also point you to the same information you pointed me to..

27.14 (1) This rule applies to any case which has been allocated to the small claims track unless paragraph (5) applies.

(Rules 44.9 and 44.11 make provision in relation to orders for costs made before a claim has been allocated to the small claims track)

(2) The court may not order a party to pay a sum to another party in respect of that other party’s costs except –

(a) the fixed costs attributable to issuing the claim which –

 

My total claim is for £374.24 inclusive of the fixed costs attributable to issuing the claim

 

I have checked these facts with the county court who have also advised me that this is indeeed my total claim and I can rightly ask for my court issue fee to be included .May I point you to indeed looking at my claim again where it clearly shows the total amount of my claim AND my court issue fee .

 

I suggest you include this is the settlement figure you are offering me so this can be quickly brought to a close and then once the total amount is recieved by me I can inform the court the matter is settled.If you still refuse to pay me my court issue fee then my claim will continue and I will let a judge decide .

 

yours truly

Janet

 

 

Solicitors reply today (by email)

 

 

Without Prejudice

Confidential and Privileged

 

 

 

Dear Madam

 

Thank you for your recent emails.

 

The Bank is willing to make an updated offer of settlement on the following basis:

 

1.The amount of your clam, £374.34, will be credited to your account.

2.As you do not have an overdraft limit on this account, you must maintain your account in credit.

3.Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

Please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by its terms and return it to us. As soon as you do so, we shall contact our client to arrange the refund.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Martineau Johnson

 

 

I will be crossing no 2 out before I sign it

 

Still clams ??? I think this just shows how desperate they are not to go into court .They may try all the scare tactics but in the end just cave in as I would of won by default at 4pm tomorrow hence them emailing me the papers to sign and answering within a few hours of my email.

[Janet-M]

Brilliant!

 

Well done for seeing it through till the bitter end - its given me massive encouragement and inspiration for my case (waiting for defence). This just shows that no matter how aggressive Lloyds and ther (edit) soliciters appear to be - they're still scared s**tless of going to court!

 

Enjoy the money!

 

Gary

 

Thats great to hear Gary as I was never interested in the money I just wanted to prove to everyone that no matter what they will cave in .

As soon as I get it 10% will go to the site rest will treat my kids

[Janet-M]

After thinking about it I've changed my mind so this 3rd offer will also be rejected as it has conditions attatched .

[Janet-M]

Email sent refusing this latest offer 6/7/06

''I shall not be returning your offer of settlement as you requested. It contains conditions and as you should realise by now I’m not prepared to accept anything but the full settlement of my claim which includes the accumulating interest ''

 

 

They filed their AQ into court at the last minute but have not complied with the judges order as they have not served one on me.

 

So as I can prove I am acting reasonable in the eyes of the court I am prepared to wait a few more days.

[Janet-M]

Full letter sent to them by email 7th July

 

Dear Sirs

I shall not be returning your offer of settlement as you requested. It contains conditions and as you should realise by now I’m not prepared to accept anything but the full settlement of my claim which includes the accumulating interest at a rate 0.0528p per day until the date of settlement. Which I am prepared to say is the date that the settlement sum is paid into my account.

 

You had better understand that I am losing patience with your stupid boorish approach to litigation and to the customers of your client.

 

I am still trying to decide whether this boorishness is as a result of an instruction from your client to be boorish or whether it is your own idea.

 

Also please understand that I am well aware from the experiences of others on Consumeractiongroup web site that you often delay in paying out the settlement after an agreement has been signed.

 

 

I give you notice that I shall not accept such delays .The interest keeps on accumulating and as you know the court has ordered that I be permitted to enter judgement against you in the event that you do not fulfill certain procedural requirements .I am perfectly prepared to do this if necessary .

 

 

Finally I understand that your clients are closing the accounts of their customers who complain about their charges .What you may not know is that yesterday the FSA announced that it considered that this retaliatory action was discriminatory and that it was referring the matter of such closures to the banking code standards committee. The FSA also announced that it expected the banks not to become involved in this retaliatory closure and to uphold the standards of the banking code.

 

 

Let me warn you that if there is so much as a sniff of retaliatory action from your client that I will retaliate myself with a legal action which will embarrass them and which they will not forget.

 

Believe me

 

Janet

 

Reply by email 10th July

 

 

Without Prejudice - Confidential and Privileged

 

Dear Madam

 

Thank you for your email of 6 July 2006.

 

We note your point relating to interest and we have amended the settlement letter to take account of the daily rate that you have kindly provided. Please find a copy of the amended settlement letter attached.

 

Please note that the terms of settlement set out in the attached letter are not open to negotiation. This is the Bank's final offer. We therefore look forward to receiving a signed copy of the attached letter shortly.

 

We should like to stress once again that the refund of the full amount of your claim will not be arranged until we have received the necessary signed letter. It is therefore wrong to accuse Martineau Johnson, or our client, of delaying the payment of the settlement monies. You are however right to state that the interest will continue to accumulate until settlement has been reached and we would therefore urge you to accept the Bank's offer to refund the full amount of your claim immediately.

 

In reference to your last two paragraphs relating to account closure, please note that we are unable to comment on the management of other customer's accounts. We are however able to confirm that the offer of settlement set out in the attached letter includes no reference to closing your account. The Bank is offering you the opportunity to manage your account properly and, by maintaining your account in credit, you will not incur any further charges and the Bank cancontinue to provide you with banking services without further dispute.

 

We look forward to hearing from you shortly.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Martineau Johnson

 

 

enclosed

 

Without Prejudice

 

Confidential and Privileged

Dear Madam

 

Thank you for your email of 6 July 2006.

 

The Bank is willing to make an updated offer of settlement on the following basis:

 

1.The amount of your claim, £374.34, will be credited to your account together with the total amount of interest accrued at a daily rate of 0.0528p from the issue date of the claim until the date on which the settlement monies enter your account.

2.As you do not have an overdraft limit on this account, you must maintain your account in credit.

3.Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

This is the Bank’s final offer. Please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by its terms and return it to us. On receipt, we shall contact our client to arrange the refund.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

sorry for all the changing i have done while posting this , the kids are playing up

[Janet-M]

As of now , Pay up unconditionally or see you in court.