Capital One card debt (CCA)

[lexis200]

Thank you:)

[lexis200]

Hi SB

 

'Fraid so:( If nothing comes in the post today I'll get a complaint into the ICO.

 

Cap1 can't pretend they've complied as I was explicit in what I wanted; there was no way it could have been mis-interpreted by them, especially with a reminder to them.

 

Ho hum:rolleyes:

[lexis200]

Well congratulations SB100, you seem very happy about it:D Have you posted on your thread as it's not flagged up on my list yet?

 

Well, I spent a couple of hours today writing a letter to the lovely chaps at Cap1 to send tomorrow - a formal complaint specifically berating Ellie Renshaw who was in charge of sending the SAR. She never even bothered acknowledging the compliance issues etc that I raised in the letter of the 20th. I also looked into complaining to the ICO, and started getting evidence together.

 

Then, much to my amazement, I had a phone call this evening from a chap there. A very nice man, who phoned up specifically to address two of the issues in the letter. First, the benefits bit. He apologised profusely for this happening, and said it was clearly a mistake on their part, and should never have happened. Apparently (and I am fully aware they will be covering their arses here as they really cocked up with it) they 'mistakenly' took the benefit payment as a normal income, hence the higher amount required from them. How they managed this when it was clearly marked 'benefit payment' on the form is a mystery.

 

Anyway, not only did he apologise (more than once) but he also offered to send a cheque to me for the difference in what I did pay and what I should have paid!!! Of course there was a caveat to this, which was that it would just be added back onto the balance, so I declined. To be honest, if I get a good result with the CCA it won't matter. If I don't I'll go for charges - there's not many but there are a few. Either way I'm not worried about it.

 

He also explained the event/history purge bits, and from this it came to light that they had not sent all the documentation they could. This is apparently being compiled now and will be with me by Friday. I'm not holding my breath, but I did 'mention' that I had been sorting out a complaint to the ICO, and I would just put it on hold until I had received the latest lot of stuff. I also made it clear that should certain things not arrive, such as, oh I don't know, a signed agreement, then the complaint would be on its way. This is recorded by both them and me, so I should be covered either way:D

 

So there you have it - they are not all gits to talk to. He was perfectly pleasant and as helpful as he could be. Granted a lot of that will be because they'd have been in huge trouble if I'd reported them for using my benefit payment in order to up the amount they could ask for, but still, it makes a refreshing change!

[lexis200]

Okie dokie

 

New letter to go out to the lovely Ellie - any comments anyone?

 

Dear Ms Renshaw

 

You have recently sent me further documents relation to my Subject Access Request, originally sent by me on the 8th December 2008.

 

I would first like to address the Credit Agreement you have sent me. I have several major concerns about it’s authenticity, and as such I would like you to confirm in writing that the double sided document you have sent is indeed a copy of both original sides of the original Agreement.

 

If you still state this is the original agreement, please be aware I will require sight of it so that I can be assured it is authentic. I will be happy to travel to your offices in order to do this so that you are not inconvenienced. If you refuse this request I will be requiring a full explanation of your reasoning behind declining this reasonable request.

 

Once you have either confirmed whether or not it is a copy of both sides of the original, I will write again with details of my concerns in order for you to address them and give me your explanations, and if applicable to arrange a date that I can view the document.

 

I would now like to address your response to my questions regarding the request I made to see my agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In your reply of the 25th November, you state ‘In accordance with Section 78, we sent you a true copy of your credit agreement as varied’ This is most definitely not what is required of you. In order to comply with the Act you must send a ‘true copy’; there is no mention of ‘as varied’. The only way you can comply with this by sending a ‘true copy’ rather than the actual agreement is by sending a copy that is the same in both form and content as the original. This must be accompanied by historic terms and conditions from the time the account was opened (as these would be referred to in the agreement), and a current set of terms and conditions. This is something that I as a lay person can fully understand from reading the CCA1974, so it is incomprehensible that a financial institution would attempt to circumvent these rules, and furthermore, to try and persuade me that you are correct in your assertions.

 

In addition, you state (after sending a blank current set of terms) that I ‘clearly have a valid and enforceable credit agreement with Capital One’. Please explain in full how a blank document from 2008 can be an enforceable agreement for an account opened in 2004? If this is indeed the case, you will no doubt be accepting the agreement I am currently formatting that shows you have in fact had an account with me, and have a large balance outstanding. Of course it is not from when you opened the account, and does not have anything relating to you within it, but nevertheless, according to your own words it is entirely enforceable.

 

I asked in my letter of 20th January what the phrases ‘event purge’ and ‘history purge’ meant. When Graham Daley phoned me to explain this, and why you had seen fit to class benefit payments as income, he explained this was simply due to notes not being held on your ‘ProphIT’ system for long, and that these notes would be included in the second SAR you sent.

 

I have had an extra 40 pages of ‘raw data’, however this simply seems to be data for your analysis rather than anything relevant to memos that have been noted down and then purged. In addition to this, the latest date I can find on the ‘Prospect WHouse Raw Data’ sheets is in 2007. As all the ‘event purge’ and ‘history purge’ notes seem to relate to 2008 onwards, I still require them to view. It has also left me wondering where the records of any notes/letters sent to me prior to 2007 are (the earliest date I can find on the ‘ProphIT’ pages), and why they have not been included in my request? As the account was opened in 2004, all documents and notes/memos (including internal memos not included on ProphIT) relating to me should still be available, and as such I require these to be forwarded to me.

 

I would also like clarification of a few phrases and abbreviations that are not clear. I have noted them below.

 

 

• ERC
  
• NFA
  
• COL
  
• BAT
  
• B94432 – DISCLOSURE GROUP CHANGED FROM STANDARD TO NEWSTAND
  
• 250805 12:00 A 013 GKUMAR CONV
  
• 00022: //BVT SOLD @12.94% FOR- 220.00
  

 

Please ensure all the information I have requested, and that should have already been provided following my original request in December, is forwarded as a matter of urgency, and certainly not more than 21 days from date of receipt of this Recorded Delivery letter.

 

I look forward to your prompt written response.

[lexis200]

Well aren't you two pessimists?

 

Personally I think she's going to have an epiphany after reading my letter and write the whole lot off:D

[lexis200]

Forgot to mention, one of the paras in the covering letter sent was (to my mind anyway) very carefully worded.

 

'I can confirm that we have sent you a copy of your current credit agreement and a copy of the document you signed when you applied for your Capital One credit card. This signature part of your credit agreement does not constitute the full terms and conditions, and these can be found on your current credit agreement'

 

So they describe the blank one as a credit agreement, but they don't call the agreement the agreement? Also the signature part of your agreement? Suggesting there's more to it?

 

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid.

 

What I am sure about though is that this is two different documents. I must get OH to scan it for me so that you lot can add your opinions, but there are several points that I think are very very suspect.

[lexis200]

Sorry:(

 

I like to think me and Ellie are postpals, the amount of letters I've sent her:)

 

As always its a valuable paper trail and shows pro-active attempt to resolve matters unlike the banks usual responses.

 

Good luck, I'll be nicking the letter if it works:p

 

PmW

 

No worries, I was joking - apart from the write of of course, coz that's a dead cert:rolleyes:

[lexis200]

I doubt it, more twists than the big dipper with this lot

 

 

 

Hmm section 23 in t&c by any chance?

 

That'd certainly be one of them:)

[lexis200]

Thanks MrMT - it was me that was corrected:D

 

Unfortunately I'd already sent this by the time that was pointed out, but did kick myself:D

 

Hope the thread helps

 

Lexis:D

[lexis200]

You bully:p:lol:

 

I know, I should report myself:D

 

I've just been having a look at the 'agreement' again (does everyone else do that - look at it every so often just to see if you've missed something? Please say it's not just me...), and I can't see a date anywhere - either from me or them.

 

Is this another issue for them?

 

I will get the scan done soon, promise. I'm going to get OH to show me how the sodding thing works so I don't have to wait for him to get his bum into gear in future! Before I met him I was great at programming stuff, now I just let him get on with it, which is very silly for when I need something doing:rolleyes:

 

Anyway, still no word from the lovely ER. I'm beginning to think she doesn't want to talk to me.

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

Hi Lexis,

 

Ellie is on maternity leave!!! (Can't remember which thread that is on - probably Sunflower's.)

 

However, that is not stopping capone sending out letters signed by Ellie. No, I'm not really confused - anyone at capone can apparently send out letters signed by Ellie.

 

(If I were Ellie and on maternity leave I would be very worried about what was being sent out in my name because I would know very well what they get up to. :eek:)

 

DD

 

Jeez, poor kid! They're never going to get a straight answer to a question are they?

 

I wonder if he/she will actually see their mum, or if they'll have to leave answerphone messages too:D

[lexis200]

Scene: Five years time, somewhere in Nottingham.

 

5-year-old Ellie to Mummy Ellie:

 

"Mum, do you know where my reading book is?"

 

Ellie: "No, but you can take this one in tomorrow. It's just like the one you brought home with you."

 

5yo Ellie: But Mum, it's not the same as the one the teacher gave me."

 

Ellie: That doesn't matter at all. Just tell the teacher it's almost the same."

 

5yo Ellie: But Mum, the book I brought home was about five horses, and this one is about four chimpanzees."

 

Ellie: "Well what is the problem with that? I'm sure your teacher won't notice, and if she does you just say "My Mummy knows all about this, and if she says the differences don't matter they don't."

 

Poor little Ellie.

 

DD

 

Excellent:D

[lexis200]

Yes I do, Lexis, I am constantly reviewing the paperwork... especially the so called agreements where they have been supplied. I have a work sheet at the front of each file which I update with new information, almost like a draft defence and my arguments, should they ever get to court:cool:

 

That is such a good idea! I work in organised chaos normally so this would really help. Actually the organised bit is a slight fib:D

 

edit- apparently I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours so I can't blobby you, but I will be later as that idea will save me a ton of time searching through files!

[lexis200]

hello hello:)

 

A follow up for lovely ellie after her pointless response to my last letter. Not sure if Cap1 has a CEO or if it's a director/president etc - trying to find out at the mo but if anyone happens to know who the head bloke is please let me know!!

 

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST NON-COMPLIANCE

THIS IS NOT A NEW REQUEST FOR DATA

 

Dear Ms Renshaw

 

Your letter of the 30th April avoided nearly every question I raised. I require answers to them within the timescale shown below. As they are very simple this should not be an issue for you.

 

1) Is the Credit Agreement you have sent me a copy of both original sides of the original document I signed? I require a yes or no answer to this question. If you answer yes I will require sight of the agreement. I will cover my own costs in travelling to your offices in order to do this. If you do not answer this question I will be forced to contact Trading Standards, as among several other concerns I have, it would appear that the two pages sent within my SAR that supposedly comprise my original agreement seem to be two completely different documents.

 

I’m sure you understand the gravity of this, so I will re-iterate, I require a yes or no answer to the question, and I will require sight of the document if you claim it is two sides of the same original document signed by me.

 

 

2) You have completely ignored how you justify telling a lay person that a blank document constitutes a ‘clearly…valid and enforceable credit agreement’. This is a blatant attempt to mislead and I require an answer as to why you feel this is acceptable behaviour from a ‘responsible’ company

 

3) I still require all letters and memos (including any internal memos) sent/made prior to 2007. It is inconceivable that in the 3 years between opening my account and this date that not one letter or memo was created, so you have most definitely not sent everything required of you.

 

4) I still require all the ‘event purge’ and ‘history purge’ notes (seemingly all from 2008 onwards) that I was told would be arriving with me over two months ago.

 

My original Subject Access Request was made in December. This should all have been dealt with by you months ago. If you are not capable of ensuring all of the above questions are answered (something I strongly feel you are not if your previous responses are indicative) I require you to pass them on to someone who is.

 

Please also note that if I do not have a complete and reasoned response to each and every point raised, from either you or someone else who can address the issues, I will be contacting your CEO and placing a formal complaint about you personally as the ‘Executive Office Manager’ as your actions to date show that you are not fit to hold the position.

 

I look forward to your prompt written response, which I will expect within 14 days of receipt of this Recorded delivery letter.

[lexis200]

Just a quickie - does it matter that the agreement doesn't appear to be dated?

[lexis200]

Go and grab yourself a glass of something lovely and have a sit down CB:)

 

I meant neither me or cap1 appear to have put a date anywhere on the form. I've signed it; I can't remember if they have or not but seeing as we all know that would only slow them down rather than stop them doing anything it's neither here nor there really.

 

Just seems odd that there's nothing on it to prove when it was signed?

[lexis200]

Right, we're getting confused:D

 

I did sign, but neither of us dated it as far as I can see. I wish I hadn't signed, but there you go:D

[lexis200]

Ooh, thanks for that, I'll have a look.

 

BTW, why have you got a little plus sign by your name at the bottom of the thread? Is it because you're extra good at stuff?

[lexis200]

In the 'currently active caggers viewing this thread' bit - you've got a little plus on the right hand side of your name:D

 

Same thought crossed my mind the_shadow, I'm just unsure if it's a deal breaker. I suppose it's always something else to add that's iffy, and that can never be a bad thing!

[lexis200]

Perhaps it is. Rest assured though it makes you look very special:D

[lexis200]

Woohoo!

[lexis200]

'lo all:)

 

Had a reply to my letter. As expected, no answers to my questions, so I guess it's a complaint to the CEO asking if he will clarify matters.

 

One thing that did interest me was the line 'Your account status remains closed and the balance is £0'. First, I didn't ask either of those questions, and second - my balance is £0?

 

Does this mean it's been charged off and I can expect a DCA to show up soon (likely), or have they actually zeroed the account and eradicated the debt (unlikely, but I've just had a lovely couple of days with the kids so I'm in a very optimistic mood:D).

 

Any ideas on this?

[lexis200]

Bumpity bump - anyone have any thoughts on the sentence about a £0 balance? My credit file still shows as the normal balance. I'm perplexed

[lexis200]

Cheers shadow:)

 

Kind of what I thought but I hoped someone could tell me different:rolleyes: Guess I'll keep on keeping on at them.

[lexis200]

Hi pawnbrokers:)

 

Yep, they're not fun to deal with are they?

 

Have you got a thread going? If you want to post it on here please do and we can pop in:)