HBOS and OH's card debt

[lexis200]

Hi all

 

My OH has just had the 'agreement' back for his old B of S card, now with Blair Oliver and Scott.

 

I'm pretty sure from the countless hours spent on here that it's not enforceable, but I'd really appreciate someone with proper knowledge having a looksee.

 

My thoughts on the single sided sheet of paper sent to him are...

 

1 - it's illegible. Even the headings make you strain to read them (OH says he thinks it looks like it could be from Microfiche). It's copied onto an A4 sheet, but the 'agreement' only takes up about 2/3 of the width, so even without the really really dodgy clarity it would be tricky to see.

 

2 - I can't see anything about a limit, we will decide a limit or anything resembling this type of statement. That said, I can't see most of the document so it possibly could be there, but none of the headings seem to relate to anything like that either.

 

3 - This is a biggy I think - No terms apart from whatever is in the signature box on the bottom right.

 

4 - It was sent with a note saying 'copy application as requested'

 

5 - It's headed 'Application form' and mentions 'application' within the form (the bits I can read anyway!)

 

If I'm right, could someone point me in the right direction for how to proceed? Should I just leave them to go past the 30 days (which is the 12th August by my reckoning), or do I write and ask for a legible copy of my agreement?

 

I don't want hubby to be seen as obstructive or anything, so I would lean towards the latter, but I know a hell of a lot of you are far more knowledgeable about these so I would rather bow to your advice than steam in and do the wrong thing:-D

 

Thanks in advance:)

 

9805appform.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Edited July 26, 2008 by lexis200

[lexis200]

Hi

 

Thanks for your responses. I was kind of thinking it was caput for them, but I've not done this before so didn't want to do anything without checking first.

 

dpick, I don't suppose you could point me in the direction of a good letter at all? I've built up a bit of a template library of my own from my trawling around on here, but nothing that seems to fit this yet. I'm not bad with letter writing, but I don't think I can compete with the ones on here that state points of law so accurately!

 

I did want to ask you as well about one of your wins if you don't mind - am I right in thinking that with the JD Williams one that the cca was not enforceable (due to it not being there!) and you then managed to get the interest you'd paid back too? Or am I reading that all wrong...

 

Also, can anyone tell me if now is the time to tell my OH to stop payments to them, or does he wait until the 30 calendar days are up? I really don't want to put a foot wrong, so any help with this is much appreciated.

 

Cheers all:D

[lexis200]

That's excellent, thanks very much:) I can't click your scales as it won't let me do it again, but I would if I could!

 

I didn't realise it was possible to try for interest/charges back - I can see I'm going back into the black hole of time that these forums have become to find out more:rolleyes:

 

Thanks again!!

[lexis200]

Ok, quick update...

 

I fired off a letter after the application was sent (your letter was a big help thanks dpick) detailing the issues raised from it and sent it at the end of last month.

 

Today OH received a standard 'we're looking into your complaint' letter (what complaint, I just stated facts, no complaining there!), so I guess we'll hear more in the next few weeks.

 

The 30 days was up a couple of days ago, and the d/d for this month has been cancelled so I imagine we'll be hearing from them about that before the 'complaint' is looked into:rolleyes:

 

That's it for now - until the phone calls start at least:-)

[lexis200]

I've just remembered something I forgot to mention yesterday, which may or may not be of use to me.

 

The reply received yesterday was from HBOS at their Lovell Park Road address, but I sent the 'you've only sent a application form' letter to Blair Oliver Scott at their Rosyth address. And, on noticing that, I then checked the application envelope I received and found that despite sending the original CCA request to BlairOS, and the compliment slip being from them, this also came from the Lovell Park Road address.

 

I know that it's generally acknowledged that they are one and the same, but I still find it odd that I write to one company and receive a reply from another, who supposedly don't want anything to do with hubbies account.

 

Can anyone shed some light on this for me at all please:confused:

[lexis200]

Right, another quick question about this...

 

I'm not actually sure whether this account has been sold to, or is being managed by BlairOS. If I'm getting letters from one when I write to the other I would assume managed by, but I'd rather not just assume. Unfortunately OH used to chuck correspondence about debts (I know I know, I've told him too:rolleyes:) so I can't look back on anything.

 

Is my best bet here to SAR them, as there are charges which could be claimed too and I would be able to see if it's been assigned or sold? Alternatively I could just write to HBOS and ask them directly (cheaper, but may be ignored as Goldfish did for my account with them).

 

Also, if we're stating that the CCA is unenforceable, does this preclude going after charges as surely that's saying you have a debt? I know you did this and won dpick, but they actually didn't have anything in writing to say there was a debt, and we just have a dodgy CCA as opposed to a non existent one.

[lexis200]

Only me again:D Oh, and apologies for the lack of paragraphs in this one - my return key isn't working (obviously, as that's an extremely common problem isn't it:rolleyes:) I meant to also add in #8, the letter they sent hubby yesterday was not sent to our address. It went to my mum and dads home instead. Now this used to be where statements/correspondence etc went to, but we moved a year ago, and since then everything from BlairOS and HBOS has been to the new address, except this letter. Should I bring this up with them, as they know damn well he's not there anymore, so why would they send anything there - what's in it for them and what are they playing at?

[lexis200]

Hello all

 

I had a thread going in the RBS forum, then realised I should have been here instead. Hey ho:)

 

OH's account went to BlairOS a good while ago, and recently I sent off for a CCA from them. I recieved the below in response a little after the 12 working days.

 

9805appform.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

After advice from some very helpful posters on the other thread, I wrote and said thanks for the application form, but please now send me the agreement as what I have at the moment is bunkum. Or words to that effect:D

 

Yesterday OH had another identical application sent to him. Although, to be fair it was copied straighter this time:) Again there was a covering note stating 'copy application as requested'.

 

The 30 days was up on the 12th of this month, so where do we go now with this?

 

Also, I'm not sure if the account is managed by BlairOS or if they own it, but either way I'm writing to them and getting replies from HBOS, which I find a little odd. And, despite them corresponding with us at our new address for over a year, they sent their standard 'we're looking into it' response to my letter to my parents address, where we haven't been for years. Again, very strange.

 

My other thread is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/153467-blair-oliver-scott-bank.html

if you want to have a look at the run up to this.

 

Thanks for any help:)

[lexis200]

Thanks babydoll - that explains why I send stuff to one company and receive the reply from another:rolleyes:

[lexis200]

Can anyone help me with this please? I just need to know what to do after the 30 days. Their response to my letter informing them the first one was an application not an agreement was to send another copy of the application.

 

Where do I go now? Do I report them to TS and write to them again?

 

Any help much appreciated.

[lexis200]

Thanks babydoll

 

So did they just suck it up when you stopped payments then? I told OH to stop paying last month and we haven't heard anything since, but the silence is deafening! Especially when they have just re-sent the application that I already told them was pants on many points, so I'm thinking they are going to be trouble soon:eek:

[lexis200]

Hey babydoll

 

Well I'll cross my fingers it goes the same for us:D I have told OH to stop paying so he's missed one payment with no word from them as yet...

 

I've just CCA'd BlairOS for another of hubbies cards, so I'm hoping we'll have the same outcome for that!

 

I kinda feel I should be sending another 'thanks, but this doesn't comply' letter just to show (if it ever gets to court) that I've tried my best to get the correct info, but I'm not really sure whether to or not:confused: I just really can't believe that when they receive a letter detailing the points that the 'agreement' falls down on, they just send a (slightly straighter) copy of the same thing! Not even with a covering letter, just a note saying 'copy application as requested'! Doh!

 

[lexis200]

Okie dokie

 

We've started getting calls from HBOS now, so I guess they're a bit miffed. I'll be sending them a letter shortly telling them they're in dispute etc, but any pointers with anything else I should include would be gratefully recieved!

 

Does anyone know whether they're known for being relatively easy to deal with or are they likely to be right barstewards?

 

Thanks for any help!

[lexis200]

Hi

 

We've had a few calls from BlairOS, 1 missed by OH (no message, just saw the number on moby and put it through saynoto0870 to find out who it was from), 1 picked up by me and hung up on at their end, and the one I've just come off from.

 

Basically, I said OH wasn't in, but before blokey could get off the phone I asked his name. He gave first name only, and flat refused to give a surname. Can they do this? I kind of thought they were obliged to give the whole name, but he wouldn't budge.

 

Also, he said he was from BO&S, but didn't say which bank it was in reference to. I don't know whether he should have or not, the account not being mine and all, but it seems a bit odd not to give that information.

 

Oh, and can anyone confirm the times they can call? 8am-9pm rings a bell but I'm not sure about that.

 

If anyone has any thoughts I'd appreciate seeing them:)

 

Thanks!

[lexis200]

Hi

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

I don't normally answer 0870 calls, but I wanted to get a name for my call log diary as they've already been informed the account is in dispute and communication should be in writing only. I think this was suggested in my MBNA thread - don't go through security, but try to get a name. Oh, and obviously neither of us ever phone them!

 

I'm not too concerned yet as it's only 3 calls - my only problem will come if they use the home phone as, even though he is constantly told not to (just as a general safety thing, nothing to do with dca's/banks!), my five year old does pick up. I expect if they ramp it up I'll get rather more irritated though, we've just been getting it lightly for now though.

 

I didn't know that they just covered Halifax/BOS, so thanks for that Fred. The trouble is BOS are in default, and I've just CCA'd Halifax for hubbie so it could have been for either:)

 

I don't get how OFCOM/OFT/TS can have such vastly different ideas about harrassment:confused: No wonder the DCA's don't give tuppence about any guidelines if they can't even agree on something that fundamental!

 

What does anyone think/know about this first name only business? I'm in the midst of a letter regarding their attempt at a CCA, and as I'm likely to be putting in a formal complaint about that I'd quite like to include this if I can. And it's just come back to me that he gave me an 0870 number for OH to call - I'm sure that's a no-no isn't it?

 

Also, just to be cheeky (always worth a try:-D), if anyone fancies giving their opinion on the thread I have going on the CCA with BO&S/HBOS (it's not a big one), the link is here -http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/156429-lexis200-hbos-blair-oliver.html

Any input would be gratefully received as I'm pretty new to all this stuff!

 

Thanks again for any and all help

[lexis200]

That's great, thanks:)

[lexis200]

Just bumping up with a couple of questions -

 

We've been getting these calls from Blair et al, obviously regarding the non-payment of the account, so I need to tell them it's in dispute. However, we're also getting letters (still addressed to my parents which needs to be sorted out) from HBOS directly, saying they're looking into my complaint. I'm assuming this is in relation to me being unhappy with the 'agreement' they sent.

 

So, do I write to Blair and tell them account's in dispute, HBOS looking into it, or do I wait for the response from HBOS to my complaint, which they say will be by the 26th (although this is the second date they've given now), and then have a go?

 

Any ideas welcome:D

[lexis200]

Well, further to my last post, OH had a phone call this morning from Blair etc, which I told him he needed to answer (they're handling 2 accounts of his and I needed to know which they were chasing on!).

 

Turns out it was the one that's in dispute, which they've now been told, so they're going to 'hold off out next course of action for 10 days'. Very nice of them considering legally they have to hold off on any course of action until we have something better from them!

 

The thing that really interested me though, was that when OH said he'd written and had no response, the woman he spoke to said, and I quote (well mostly, this is from this morning:)) 'we are unable to give a personal response because we don't have a letter available for this situation'. At which point hubbie asked if they were incapable of writing their own letters, and was told 'yes'.

 

So it's templates all the way then! This conversation did go on a little longer as hubbie just couldn't believe they really couldn't reply properly, but the upshot was if it wasn't already written and on their computers ready to be sent, they can't/won't (not sure which) write one themselves.

 

I have no idea at what stage you do actually start to get a proper letter - they must at some point surely? - but I find this incredible. I realised the majority of their correspondence would be templated, otherwise the workload would just be ridiculous, but to admit they can't do anything other than this???

 

Anyway, we're still waiting on the complaint response from HBOS, so will know more when that arrives.

[lexis200]

Hello again all

 

We had another call from BlairOS this morning, and I thought you might like to see the upshot.

 

They're not actually bothering us as we've only had about 3 or 4 more calls since my last post (none of which were answered), and to be honest, OH said the lady he spoke to was very nice so that's not an issue...at the moment.

 

ps Thanks for the letter Babybear - I've copied it into my ever growing template folder:D

 

Anyway, I've copied this from my HBOS thread if you fancy having a look - I found it interesting:)

 

Well, further to my last post, OH had a phone call this morning from Blair etc, which I told him he needed to answer (they're handling 2 accounts of his and I needed to know which they were chasing on!).

 

Turns out it was the one that's in dispute, which they've now been told, so they're going to 'hold off out next course of action for 10 days'. Very nice of them considering legally they have to hold off on any course of action until we have something better from them!

 

The thing that really interested me though, was that when OH said he'd written and had no response, the woman he spoke to said, and I quote (well mostly, this is from this morning:)) 'we are unable to give a personal response because we don't have a letter available for this situation'. At which point hubbie asked if they were incapable of writing their own letters, and was told 'yes'.

 

So it's templates all the way then! This conversation did go on a little longer as hubbie just couldn't believe they really couldn't reply properly, but the upshot was if it wasn't already written and on their computers ready to be sent, they can't/won't (not sure which) write one themselves.

 

I have no idea at what stage you do actually start to get a proper letter - they must at some point surely? - but I find this incredible. I realised the majority of their correspondence would be templated, otherwise the workload would just be ridiculous, but to admit they can't do anything other than this???

 

Anyway, we're still waiting on the complaint response from HBOS, so will know more when that arrives.

 

I'm sure it's been well documented before, but I thought it might be of interest anyway!!

 

L:)

[lexis200]

Cheers BB, will do! They have until the 26th (the second deadline they've set themselves), then I need to get onto the FOS to stick in a complaint re non-compliance.

 

I've seen the 'payment enclosed' trick before RMW, and I like it... was it you I saw on another thread who not only marked the envelope with that, but also 'forgot' to add the payment - oh, and a stamp;) I loved that one!

[lexis200]

Hehe

[lexis200]

Hi

 

I recently sent a CCA off to BOS for my OH's card. As a response they first reduced his limit down to just above the balance owed (not really a problem seeing as he hasn't used any cards for months now, but still, how petty!!)

 

Anyway, I've just had his 'agreement' back from Bank of Scotland - this is the second one with them (first is being handled by Blair Oliver Scott), and it looks to be just as atrocious as the first one.

 

It came as two separate photocopies/printouts, with no reference numbers that I can see to link them, and a nice freshly copied set of new terms. It's as illegible as it looks on Photobucket. I can't see much, but I'm pretty sure there's no prescribed terms.

 

Also, in their covering letter, their last line is 'Please note that the information we have provided you with is all the information we are able to provide you with Under Section 78...'

 

Am I right in thinking I should be pretty pleased about that?

 

On the back of this, should I be sending the 'illegible, no prescribed terms, wrong t's and c's, no debt acknowledged' letter?

 

Also, if this really is all they have, is there any likelihood of being able to get interest he's paid back? I've seen a few threads on this but not much that I can go on, and tbh with the problems we have at the moment if we can get anything back I'm willing to give it a go if possible.

 

Images copied below (hopefully!)

 

Thanks for any help:)

 

bos1.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

bos2.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[lexis200]

Could anyone have a quick look at my images please, as I'd really like to get an 'in dispute' letter off to them, but I want to make sure it's correct.

 

FYI, I've included that it's illegible, has no prescribed terms and the t's and c's are current, not originals. If anyone can confirm I'm right about this I'd be very grateful!

 

Thanks

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

Thank you very much 42man, you're a star - I'll be getting that letter off today!

[lexis200]

Okay...

 

OH had the reply about the illegible agreement a couple of days ago. I've attached the reply, and the two possible replies from me to them.

 

I'd really appreciate it if someone could have a look and see if what I've knocked up is ok - if I've used the correct quotes from the correct acts etc, and if there's anything I should add/take out from either letter. I'd also like to know which would be the better one to send, as they are written in slightly different ways. If they're completely off I really want to know:D

 

Also, I didn't know what to put about the 'you've used the account for the last x years' bit. Should I even acknowledge that para or do I just ignore it completely?

 

Any help gratefully received!

 

bos11.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

bos21.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting