Taking my first steps towards making a claim - **IT'S WON!!!**

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi guys,

 

Just read some of the forum tonight following a link from moneysaving expert.com. My wife and I have been customers of the Abbey for a long time.

My wife opened her account nearly twenty years ago and I became a joint account holder approx 3 years ago. Due to various changes in employment etc we have incurred a lot of charges.

 

From the 26/03/04 - 26/11/05 our bank charges have totalled £3901.00.

 

These charges are for a mixture of unpaid D/D's, returned Cheques, and items paid whilst overdrawn.

 

Our account is now held by Abbey's debt management department and we have a "managed down overdraft" to repay an overdraft of £3000 at £120.00 per month. We no longer have any cheque books, debit cards or credit cards from the Abbey.

 

What are my chances of getting any of the charges back in members past experiences ??

 

Any replies would be gratefully received.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

I doubt we have the original contract, although I am a bit of a hoarder so I will have a look through all of my paperwork.

 

Regards

 

Tim

 

p.s now read through most of the FAQ's and will be sending my first letter shortly.

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for your kind replies.

I have read through much of the forum and the FAQ's and have now written my initial letter.

 

The claim is for £3992.44 inc overdraft interest

 

I will be posting my letter recorded delivery first thing tomorrow.

 

Wish me luck.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi guys,

 

I sent off my first letter today Recorded Delivery (of course) to the Triton Place address.

I have read the advice in the Step by Step instructions and will be following this letter up if I don't get a reply within 14 days.

 

Incidentally should I follow up after 14 days, or 14 working days ????

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Thanks Richard,

 

I also work a 7 day week, but you know what the banks are like. I want to do this by the book.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Received a reply from Abbey today, it reads as follows: -

 

"Thanks for contacting us and I'm sorry you've been so unhappy you've felt you must complain.

 

One of my colleagues will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I've enclosed our Customer Satisfaction Leaflet, which explains our procedure for doing this. High quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we'll do everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.

 

I know it's important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly but we want to do a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. We'll write to you within the next four weeks to let you know what's happening.

 

Although I don't know what the outcome will be, I do hope we'll be able to find a solution that you're happy with.

 

Your Sincerely

 

Antony Turbitt,

Manager, Banking Servicing."

 

I am not happy with the four week arguement, and I will stick to my original deadline of 29th March, but how should I word my second letter.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Yes I know my charges, they are £3841.00 plus £151.44 in overdraft interest. Total £3992.44.

 

I sent the preliminary letter on the 15th March, so the 14 days is up on 29th March. Do I wait until then before sending the "Letter Before Action", or should I send it now ???

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Dave,

 

The first letter I sent was the the one from the Library labelled "Letter - Preliminary approach for repayment". This was sent on the 15th March, in the text of this letter is the following: -

 

"I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments."

 

Therefore my plan of action will be :-

 

1) Wait until March 29th for any further communication from the Abbey

2) If no further communication then send Letter before action as per letter in library giving them until 12th April 2006.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Tim

 

p.s in answer to Chardonnay123's post, no I did not change the letter much from the one in the library. I hope they would know the account was with Debt Management and they would probably be able to work out that my present £2400 overdraft was largely down to their charges.

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Got confirmation from Natwest yesterday that my application for a 'Step' account has been approved. Then this morning received my cash card, this means I now have an alternative account so I am now prepared for the fight ahead with the Abbey.

 

Roll on the 29th March when I will be sending my letter before action.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi guys,

 

The Abbey have sent me another letter today, nice to see they still cannot be bothered to send out anything other than an automated reply.

 

The letter reads: -

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"Dear Mr Dunlop

 

Thank you for your letter dated 13 March 2006, I apologise for the delay in coming back to you.

 

With regard to your request for a refund under Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations, we don’t believe that Abbey’s charges are unfair under these rules.

 

When you opened the account with Abbey, you were provided with Terms and Conditions that detailed the charges that become applicable should you breach the terms of the account. Abbey is up front and transparent about all its banking charges as set out in the tariff of charges.

 

Abbey’s bank account is good value and our charges compare fairly with other banks. For most people, banking is free and they don’t incur penalty charges.

 

If the complaint escalates into a claim in the County Court, we will review each case individually, and if we feel that our relationship with our customer has broken down completely, we may decide to give notice to close the account under the Terms and Conditions.

 

An investigation of all the charges relating to your complaint has been carried out. As they’ve all been applied in line with our current tariff of charges and haven’t arisen as a result of proven Abbey error, no further refunds will be applied.

 

Please be assured I’ve carried out a full investigation for you and I hope you feel I’ve offered a fair response to all of the issues you’ve raised. I’ll keep your file open for the next eight weeks and if I don’t hear from you within that time, I’ll assume that everything is resolved and will close your file.

 

If you remain dissatisfied though, the leaflet you'll find with this letter explains your rights and how to take your complaint further with the Abbey. The leaflet also explains your ultimate right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service."

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jackie Hammond

Banking Servicing

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So glad they took the time to send me this letter. When my wife rang me today to tell me it had arrived in the post my first reaction was "Oh good, thats exactly what I was expecting, Game ON !!!!!"

 

Funnily enough tomorrow is the 14th day since I sent my first letter, so tomorrow I will be sending a "letter before action" as per the draft in the library.

 

Any advice ??

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Letter before action posted recorded delivery this morning.

Given them 14 days from today. Deadline is 12th April 2006.

 

I await there response.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Morning all,

 

Just had todays mail and still no reply from the Abbey.

I had given them until 12th April to reply, so unless a cheque for my refund appears in tomorrows post (what do you reckon are the chances of that !!!), I will begin filing my claim tomorrow.

 

Regards

 

Tim Dunlop

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Well its the 12th April, and guess what I did get correspondence from Abbey in this mornings post. I opened the letter thinking they may have sent me a cheque (ha,ha) however, this is what the enclosed letter said :-

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Mr Dunlop,

 

I have just received details of your complaint and I am sorry to hear that we have not yet been able to resolve your concerns. One of my team will look at all the relevant facts, review any paperwork and talk to the people involved, so that they fully understand the problem.

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly. However, we want to do a thorough investigation and this can take time. We will investigate your concern fully and reply to you within four weeks.

 

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Dawn Hoyle

Head of Compliants

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ooops !!! to late times up.

 

The claim form will be completed this evening and all being well I will take it to the court myself tomorrow.

 

Any help in filling in the claim form will be much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

I have now completed the claim form.

 

I will be taking it to the court in person so I have worked on the N1eng.pdf link in the library section.

 

I cannot post a copy of the claim form here, but I have copied some of the text.

Please if you have got this far or further read through my text and see if it is ok.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Section: - Brief details of claim

 

The action is on the grounds that:-

I have a contract with the defendant bank dated 26/05/04 and which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges over the last 2 years plus the interest they have levied on those charges. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

I have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so.

 

Section: - Value

 

The total bank charges taken in the period 26th May 2004 to 27th November 2005 of £3841.00 plus overdraft interest of £151.44. I am also claiming interest on the bank charges of £292.42 this is calcualted at 8% as allowed by s.64 the County Courts Act (1984).

The total value of the claim is £4284.86

 

Section: - Particulars of the claim

 

1. The Claimant has an account *Acc No* ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 26th May 2004

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3841.00 and any interest charged thereon;

b) Court costs;

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

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What do you think ????

 

I will also be including a copy of the spreadsheet with the charges and interest worked out. Do I need to include copies of the letters I have sent the bank ???

 

Any help would be useful.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Thursday 13th April, and yet another letter from Abbey.

This one reads:-

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Mr Tim Dunlop

 

As you know, we are currently investigating your complaint that you raised with Abbey four weeks ago. I am sorry for the delay you are experiencing and I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued patience.

 

Our research is taking longer than expected because we want to make sure a full investigation is done. If we are unable to complete our investigation beforehand, we will write again in four weeks time to let you know how we are getting on.

 

I am sorry that it is taking longer than originally thought and would like to reassure you that your complaint is very important to us.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Dawn Hoyle

Head of Complaints.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Is this a deliberate stalling tactic from the Abbey ?

I can only assume their 'research' is them trying to find away out of my complaint.

 

Am I right in thinking I should still continue with my claim at the court which was to be filed today ??

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for that. By my calculation the daily interest on £3841.00 will be £0.85.

 

So I will re-word the claim to read: -

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3841.00 and any interest charged thereon;

b) Court costs;

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act at the rate of £0.85 per day until judgement.

 

Is this correct.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Amended version now reads:-

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) The return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £3992.44 plus £292.42 interest at 8% until 13th April 2006 plus interest continuing at the same rate of £0.85 pence per day until date of judgement pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act

b) Court costs.

 

 

Hope this is correct as I am going to the court later today.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Just returned from the Court.

 

They were SHUT !!!!!!

 

Checked the opening hours on the website before I went, but according to a sign on the door they have closed today at 12 midday until 10.00am on Tuesday due to the Easter holiday.

 

Just my look.

 

Oh well looks like I will have to wait until Tuesday.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Went to the court this morning and filed my claim.

The court officer said the claim would be processed and served today.

 

I will ring them tomorrow for a claim number.

 

Hold on for the ride !!!!!

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

My claim has been filed and served and I now have a claim number. Waiting to see if Abbey contest the claim or fail to file a defense.

 

In the meantime I have received another letter from them this morning dated 18th April 2006. This one reads as follows: -

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Mr Dunlop.

 

Thank you for your letter of 29th March 2006. I have now looked into your complaint. I have tried to contact you unfortunately I have been unsuccessful.

 

I am sorry we have given you cause to complain in relation to charges incurred on your Abbey Current Account *******.

 

I have carefully considered the points you have raised, namely that you feel the charges are contrary to common law, statue and recent consumer regulations. The fact remains however that the charges in question were prompted by payment requests against insufficient available funds. As such they are valid and in line with our Terms and Conditions. Furthermore, having reviewed the history of your account, I can see this is not the first time you have incurred charges.

 

I note you say you are unhappy with the charges you have incurred over the last two years. If you felt at any time the charges were unfair or incorrect, then the matter should have been raised at that time.

 

As my colleague Jackie Hammond wrote in her letter dated 24 March 2006. We do not feel that Abbey's charges are unfair under these regulations. When you opened the account with Abbey, you were provided with Terms and Conditions that detailed the charges that become applicable should you breach the terms of the account. Abbey is up front and transparent about all its banking charges as set out in the tariff of charges.

 

Abbey's Current Account is good value and our charges compare fairly with other Banks. For most people, banking is free and they do not incur penalty charges.

 

If the complaint escalates into a claim in the County Court, we'll review each case individually and if we feel that our relationship with our customer has broken down completely, we may decide to give notice to close the account under the terms and conditions.

 

I am aware you currently have a Manage Down arrangement on your account with our Debt Managment Operations Department (DMO), which started on 7 November 2005. I feel we have done everything we can to help you reduce the debt on your account and do not feel it would be appropriate to offer to refund the charges you have incurred over the past two years.

 

This is my final resolution letter. However, if you would like to discuss the content of this letter or have any new points you believe should be taken into account,and which may make a difference to the outcome of the investigation, please contact me within 14 days of this letter on the above number. If I do not hear from you by then, and you have not asked us to extend the deadline for any reason, I will file my papers accordingly.

 

Should you be dissatisfied with the outcome of our investigation, I would like to remind you that you can refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I enclose a booklet explaining how to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and should you wish to do so, there is a time limit of six months from the date of this letter.

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service contact details are:

 

Financial Ombudsman Service,

South Quay Plaza,

183 Marsh Wall,

London,

E14 9SR.

 

Telephone number: 0845 080 1800

Facsimile number: 0207 964 1001

E-mail address: [email protected]

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mrs Anna Brassington

Senior Customer Resolution Manager

Complaints

 

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At least this letter was hand signed and looks to be written by Mrs Brassington and not a straight forward automated reply.

 

I don't know why she has said 'I have tried to contact you unfortunately I have been unsuccessful'. The bank have my mobile number and they have never rung me on this.

 

This will not change my cause of action.

 

They have 14 days from 18th April to file a defense.

 

Any comments from members of the group with regard to this letter.......

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Just a quick update for anyone thats interested.

I received my form N205A (Notice of Issue) from the court a few days ago.

It states that the claim was sent to the Abbey on 18th April 2006 and it was deemed to be served on 20th April 2006. Abbey have until Thursday 4th May to reply (tomorrow).

 

I contacted the court when my N205A arrived and the clerk told me the defendant has until 4pm on the 4th May 2006 to issue a reply. I will be contacting the court again tomorrow to see if they have had a reply, because I have not heard anything from the Abbey. If nothing by 4pm then I will be at the court first thing on Friday to request a judgement.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

Well today did not go entirely to plan.

I was hoping Abbey would not file a defence and that I would win the claim by default. No such luck, although having read the thread today from Neilp with regard to winning claims by default, Abbey would have probably used the excuse that they had not had the paperwork and applied to the court to have the judgement set aside.

 

I spoke to the court at 10.40am this morning and was told no defence had been filed by the Abbey, I decided to wait until just before the court closed at 4pm before confirming this. I rang again at 3.50pm and was told that no defence had been filed (at this point I am beginning to think I had won), however the clerk did tell me that Abbey had filed an acknowledgement of service on 28th April 2006. The fact that they have filed an acknowledgement of service buys them another 14 days from today (28 days from date of service). This means Abbey now have until the 18th May 2006 to file a defence, or admit the claim.

I suppose this is good in a way as they cannot now use the excuse that they have not had the paperwork.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what to do, or is it just a case of sitting tight ?

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

I have received a form N10 'Notice that acknowledgement of service has been filed' from the court today.

 

It states on the form: -

 

"The defendant responded to the claim indicating an intention to defend all of the claim"

 

Looks like I might have a fight on my hands.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi there,

 

I have today received a letter from a firm of solicitors called 'DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary'. The letter states: -

 

" We enclose a Notice of Change of Solicitor on behalf of the Defendant in this case. This notice has also been filed at court."

 

Is this significant or not ??

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Tim Dunlop]

Hi Tim

I just wondered have you ever received a 'Notice of Recovery Action - Oustanding Debt'.

 

Hi Chardonnay123,

 

No I have never received one of these, will let you know if one arrives in the next few days.

 

Regards

 

Tim