Fraudulent brankruptcy

[fiveyearplan]

According to previous posts the agreement was signed before his bankruptcy therefore as you say BaaB, it will be null and void.

 

Majik it is against the law for a BR to make payments to a creditor post bankruptcy.

 

£16,000 isn't a big salary and everything you say you know you can only be guessing, the only people who know what he is paying is his mother and him and by living with her, that is not subletting.

 

As BaaB says, and I have said before, you will just make yourself sick if you keep on.

 

I am sorry for the position you're in, it may not seem fair but life isn't always fair.

[fiveyearplan]

You can make application for his bankruptcy to be annulled on basis its a sham and designed to get him out of his maintenance payments etc. He doesn't have kids so therefore doesn't have maintenance payments You would have to be able to prove that he has understated his income and overstated his liabilities and if you lost would be responsible for the ORs costs.

 

A bankrupts liability for debt is wiped out up to the day he is made bankrupt. He remains liable for any debts he incurrs AFTER that date.

 

The debt was a joint secured loan taken out before bankruptcy. Upon bankruptcy it would then fall to the other party. The agreement the OP is talking about was signed before bankruptcy therefore would have fallen in his bankruptcy.

[majik]

According to previous posts the agreement was signed before his bankruptcy therefore as you say BaaB, it will be null and void.

 

Majik it is against the law for a BR to make payments to a creditor post bankruptcy. At no point have i spoken to him since the he was bankrupted and i have never asked for payment,I only found out he was bankrupt after issusing courts papers against him, i won by default and sent the baliffs in to enforce the court order/agreement. It was then that i found out about the bankruptcy although the court who sent baliffs was also same court who bankrupted him and i have been advised by them that the court order/County Court Judgement stands and needs to be paid.

 

£16,000 isn't a big salary and everything you say you know you can only be guessing, the only people who know what he is paying is his mother and him and by living with her, that is not subletting. I was married to him for 5 years so i know people who know him/work with him and and to date he has been on 2 holidays to spain and goes out drinking/clubbing 2-4 times eacdh week.

My gripe is he has been living there rent free for 1 year and now he has been made bankrupt he starts paying "rent". Surely as his mum is the council tenant and he is not named on tenancy agreement then he has no proof of what rent he's paying and the OR have already revealed that he was not paying rent until April this year so he has only been paying rent since declaring himself bankrupt. Also i believe that it is subletting as she is the tenant and is letting a room without the lanlords knowledge.

 

As BaaB says, and I have said before, you will just make yourself sick if you keep on. I am awaiting a replies from OR once received i will go from there, I was merely replying to BaaB question on the post and in all honesty haven't given it a second thought.

 

I am sorry for the position you're in, it may not seem fair but life isn't always fair.

 

Please see my replies in red.

Edited September 15, 2008 by majik

[majik]

Can you explain just what you mean by "agreemant" in the Above? I have a 3 signed contracts stating that any shortfall will be paid in full by him on put into his sole name as agreed in the divorce.

 

Was it between your ex and you only or was the lender party to that "agreemant" and in what form did it take? The lender asked for copies of everything which were supplied when my ex missed a payment they then sent me a letter saying i was jointly responsible,This occured after the sale of the flat so was too late to pull out of sale.

 

The way im reading that is he was BR before the agreemant was made/finalized on the 19.04.2008 so his liabilaty for the debt that agreemant was for was already no longer his liabilaty before that date so in affect didnt exist anymore (to him) making that agreemant null and void. If that makes sense, but your explanation is a bit vague regarding that "agreemant" so i may be wrong. If was made bankrupt in March 08 however the agreement was for him to pay off the shortfall or put it into his sole name which he had until 18-4-2008 to do. Agreement was made before he was bankrupt but didn't occur until after he was bankrupt.

 

 

He also might not have been able to agree to be liable after his BR without his OR,s permision, so that complicates it further as well, but that would depend on how the agreemant was viewed

OR have admitted he is liable for it and originally added to his debts then retracted that following further investigations which are still ongoing, Last i heard from them was about 2-3 weeks ago where they suggested and Payment Order is looking likely which will last for upto 36 months and would result in a large % if not all monies being repaid to all creditors.

[majik]

The debt was a joint secured loan taken out before bankruptcy. Upon bankruptcy it would then fall to the other party. The agreement the OP is talking about was signed before bankruptcy therefore would have fallen in his bankruptcy.

Whilst it was signed before the bankruptcy it wasn't/couldn't be "activated" until after his bankruptcy (It would appear to be a ploy to ensure that the flat was sold) so it wasn't due to me until after the bankruptcy so would therefore be a debt that occured after the bankruptcy. At least thats what the County Court seem to think as i still have a case ongoing to re-claim my money and it is being handled by same court he was bankrupted at and they are well aware that he was made bankrupt.

[majik]

Update:

 

As the debt occured through a fraudulent breach of trust (my opinion) it cannot be included in the bankruptcy and the now former bankrupt is still fully liable to repay all sums agreed.

 

The OR has confirmed that all debts that occur through a fraudulent brach of trust cannot be included in a bankruptcy.

 

I am not sure how i go about proving that this occured through a fraudulent breach of trust though ? His report to creditors clearly prove that he was never in a position to honour the agreement he made but will that be sufficient proof ?

 

I will be applying for an attachment of earnings asap.

[Hobbie]

You'll never be able to prove that it occured fraudulently, not unless he either a) Admits it was fraud (which I doubt he'll do) or; b) You have some way to read his mind at the time he made the declaration/report.

 

But all you have to do is prove on the balance of balance of probabilities (on a sliding scale) mroe serious the allegation more balance is needed, less serious the less balance is needed.

 

Surely you'll need to prove beyond the balance of probabilities that your debt was included in the bankruptcy was a breach of trust before you can apply have have money deducted from monies earned?

[majik]

I have already obtained a CCJ against him and the report to creditors proves he was having financial trouble 18 months before he made himself bankrupt and he looked at getting an IVA at that time.

Creditor report also states that he was on sick leave for 2 months before making himself bankrupt and the contracts/agreements were within this time.

 

His official receiver has confirmed that any issue residing from a fraudulent breach of trust cannot be included in his bankruptcy.

 

The court action against him was won by default (he ignored.failed to reply and failed to send on to OR) and i was only informed he was bankrupt when i sent baliffs in to collect my money etc.

 

Im just not sure what/how i meant to move things on now ? Do i need to get police involved to prove the fraud ?

 

Also original County Court claim was for 1p plus enforcement of contract. Since this started i have had to pay £3100 to prevent any action against myself so how do i add this cost into current case ? i have proof that i have paid £3100 and it was also stated on the original warrent of exacution. I have not problems paying the additional court fees etc but not sure where/how i should now move things forward.

 

Surely the fact that his financial positon got worse during the last 18 according to his report to creditors proved that he could have never serviced this "additional" debt and the fact that he quite clearly asks to be given until 16th April to have everything sorted out and declares himself bankrupt 3 weeks before this, knowing that he would not be chased by myself until after he had made himself bankrupt.

 

His one intention was to obtain my signature/agree to the sale of the jointly owned flat so he could sell evrything in there and then declare himself bankrupt and start again.

Edited April 11, 2009 by majik
additional info added