Too Late?

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Firstly is it possable you could post up the following details of your case in order to advise further

 

Claiments P.O.C (partiulars of Claim)

 

Can I recommend not admitting any liability for the debt, partial or otherwise. If the credit agreement has not been provided by Sainsburys as the result of a CCA request, then you have no way of ascertaining if the contract is legally valid under the CCA 1974. In the absence of this information, you are unwisely, in my opinion, admitting liability for a debt, that hasn't been proven to exist or one that conforms to the requirements of the CCA 1974.

 

You might be thinking that of course a debt exists! However, for the purposes of the law, the existence of the debt is determined by a credit agreement being furnished by your creditors and one that is deemed to be properly executed, which means its layout and content conforms to what the CCA 1974 prescribes.

 

Also you need to change he heading on your CPR request to Request for CIVIL PROCEDURES REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR 18

 

 

I trust the above is helpful.

 

Regards

Andy:)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sir Pip

 

Dont know about the scales must be sabortarge:D

 

 

Ok yes use bartys but change the heading

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

Edited July 12, 2008 by Andyorch
typo

[AndyOrch]

Hi

Just a word on the AoS

 

I presume you will do this online MCOL you have 33 days in total.Date of the summons +5 is deemed service date you then have 14 days to AoS and another 14 to enter your defence if required,Dont be too quick to complete said AoS you will found out reading various threads that Litigation involves mindgames and so the longer you leave it (im not implying the last day) the more you are keeping your opponents ( Claimants) in the dark.Serves no purpose in rushing these matters as you will found out in time.

Dont forget to print off your Acknowledgement after input this is retained as proof of input ie date and timestamped.

 

 

Regards

Andy;)

Edited July 12, 2008 by Andyorch
typo

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

CCM & Andy O - Just so as I'm clear: I hold off on the online AOS for 7-10 days, but send the CPR straight away? And, as the CPR letter is incorporating a request for CA, I should enclose a postal order for £1 ?

 

 

NO once legal proceedings have commenced you are not required to pay re CPR proceedures

 

Regards

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Better than usual response to CPR 18 request dont concern yourself with not recieving the rest of the information on time just proceed to defence

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sirpip

 

If you are struggling to draft a defence I recently did one for a personal loan in this thread you could adapt it to suit your circumstances and then post up and will have a look and tweak if ness. Urgent help required

 

 

Regards

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Regarding the P.O.C, it does not mean you have to admit the debt by challenging them.Defences are drafted to refute the Claimants P.O.C nothing more nothing less not to argue or present your autobiography simply to refute and halt/question their claim. I will try to illustrate by advising what I write when drafting defences. First, I always write(or words to the effect of),

"The Defendant denies that he is liable as alleged in the particulars of claim, or at all." Once you have made that statement, of course you are saying no monies are owed. Beyond that, when you raise issues in respect of charges or anything else, phrases that are used include, "If that which is denied," or "In respect of the alleged agreement, to which penalty charges have been levied." You get the picture! There are many ways of raising points without admitting a damn thing! It's quite amusing the way things are worded when you think about it, you can accuse the creditor of all sorts without admitting liability! That's the funny quirk that law has!

Can I recommend not admitting any liability for the debt, partial or otherwise. If the credit agreement has not been provided by Sainsburys as the result of a CPR 18/CCA request , then you have no way of ascertaining if the contract is legally valid under the CCA 1974. In the absence of this information, you are unwisely, in my opinion, admitting liability for a debt, that hasn't been proven to exist or one that conforms to the requirements of the CCA 1974.

 

You might be thinking that of course a debt exists! However, for the purposes of the law, the existence of the debt is determined by a credit agreement being furnished by your creditors and one that is deemed to be properly executed, which means its layout and content conforms to what the CCA 1974 prescribes.

With regards to the full interest being applied well it is not unsual for the claimant to include the full amount up front depends on the terms of the agreement some do some dont and apply it monthly

They have applied the full amount from the drawdown after breach to the default. Any rebate would have been reflected in your Formal Demand. Giving you the option of early settlement or rectify the breach. Companies feel they have the right to include the full term of interest encompassed by the agreement when litigation is commenced Whether it is questionable/arguable You must refer to the terms and conditions of your agreement,unfortunatly you dont have.If you have any further concerns or dont understand why we draft defences in this matter please post and also post up your intended defence before submission to enable Cag to verify its content.

Itrust the above clarifies your concerns

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Thanks again Andy

 

Can anyone address point 2.? Re. the claim being 'vexatious and amounting to unlawful harassment'?

 

Don't mean to sound too tentative, but if I make this claim, not sure I can back it up

 

 

Hi Sirpip

 

The term comes from any attempt by the applicant to be totally unamicable/Unreasonable in bringing the claim.If it dosent apply to your case then simply edit to suit.It is however a powerful word to use in any Defence that the claimant was Vexatious in bringing their claim.

Vexatious litigation is legal action which is brought, regardless of its merits, solely to annoy or subdue an adversary. It may take the form of a primary frivolous lawsuit or may be the repetitive, burdensome, and unwarranted filing of meritless motions in a matter which is otherwise a meritorious cause of action. Filing vexatious litigation is considered an abuse of the judicial process and may bring down sanctions on the offender.

A single action, even a frivolous one, is not enough to raise a litigant to the level of being declared vexatious.

Repeated and severe instances by a single lawyer or firm can result in eventual disbarment.

Some jurisdictions have a list of vexatious litigants: people who have repeatedly abused the legal system. Because lawyers could be disbarred for participating in the abuse, vexatious litigants are often unable to retain legal counsel, and therefore represent themselves in court. Those on the list are usually either forbidden from any further legal action or required to obtain prior permission from a senior judge before taking any legal action. The process by which a person is added to the list varies among jurisdictions

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited August 11, 2008 by Andyorch

[AndyOrch]

Hio Sirpip

 

Yes thats fine as i have stated does not have to be long and complicated just refute the claimants POC. Are you submitting this on line vis a vis MCOL?

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Ok Sirpip

 

Thats fine defence looks good couldnt have done better myself:D

just copy and paste into MCOL and dont forget to print your time reciept off.

 

 

Just post if you require anything further

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Anyone there? I guess Andy's there... he's always there

 

Please see excerpt from my defence:

 

Regarding that which is denied, I respectfully request that the Court give consideration to striking out the Claimant’s case pursuant to part 3.4 (2) (of what ?!?) CPR The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court – a) b) c) etc

 

Thanks

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:wink:

[AndyOrch]

Nothing unless you recieve an AQ

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited September 30, 2008 by Andyorch

[AndyOrch]

Allocation Questionaire this will only be forwarded if the Claimant wishes to proceed and will then transfer the case to your local CC.

 

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sirpip

 

And very well done time to crack open that special botte then.Ok Costs try this:-

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

in respect of XXXXXXXX -v- XXXXXXXX

 

I note that you have discontinued this claim , therefore, pursuant to CPR 38.6(1) i respectfully ask that you consider payment of my costs which i feel are reasonable

 

 

1) Time spent researching the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Regulations - XX hours

 

1.1) time spent researching and reading case law- X hours

 

1.2) time spent drafting defence and amended defence and allocation questionnaire -X hours

 

total 25 hours at the litigant in person rate of £9.25 per hour

 

these time scales are a conservative approximation, i feel that i have spent much more time than this however i am trying to remain reasonable

 

Other costs,

 

Printing, stationary and postage £10

 

Letter writing between the myself and Sainsburys and yourselves 1.5 hours £13.80

 

Total=£255.05

 

I respectfully ask that this sum be paid within 21 days,

 

 

I trust the above will suffice

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi mel and welcome to Cag legal

 

If you would like to start your own thread then it wont get mixed up with SirPips and you will get assistance with your problem.

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

To the Court SirPip and guard the Notice of Discontinuence with your life.BTW would be extremely difficuilt to resurrect without the Courts permission

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Costs claim letter ready to go

 

Can anyone just advise on the following?

 

1. Letter goes to 'The Court Manager' who then forwards to claimant? YES after the Court as awarded and ordered

2. Do I sign letter? Coz I guess Claimant sees it.Print name or Digital Sig

3. Why might court allow claim to be resurrected? They may try but guard your Notice of Discontinuence

4. And lastly, not important, just interested to know: Is the litigant in person rate (£9.25ph) set out somewhere, like in the CPR? Thanks CB

 

I'll keep you y'all posted

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Chase the Court up SirPip

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Sir Pip

 

I am right in thinking that your claim never left Northampton as you didnt get to the AQ stage for it to be transfered to your Local CC.Therefore you may have to submit your costs claim via your own summons through Northampton MCOL as the Claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy