Help

[smad]

Hi, every1 am having problem's with bailiffs, and hoping someone can advise me on what i should be doing.

Sorry if explanation is a bit long...

I managed to get myself into arrears with my 2007 council tax and my account was passed to Jacobs, I made an arrangement over the phone to pay weekly but then managed to fall behind with these. I had a visit on Friday from a very unpleasant man, who informed me i have until Monday to pay him £1153 (about £300 more than i believe I owed). I contacted him later that night to say there was no way I could afford to pay that amount, but could pay some of it when he came on Monday, He told me he would only accept the full amount, and if I didn't pay he would be applying for a commital order. I told him I wouldn't be answering the door to him as I just can't pay it all. He then said I had no chioce as he has a Levy and walking possesion order that i have signed, so he could enter my home at any time. (I have never signed anything.)

 

This is really worrying me as I don't know what to do when he calls on monday and i cant pay that amount of money.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks

Edited June 22, 2008 by smad

[Fair-Parking]

Just to put your mind at ease, no bailiff can take anything if you did not sign any 'walking possession' form and if you do not let him in. As you say this one sounds not only unpleasant, but one who will quite happily lie and intimidate you just to achieve his aim of earning commission from your problems.

 

As far as his threat of committal proceedings, it's not for him to decide. He's just a private citizen. You are highly unlikely to be arrested for struggling to pay council tax. For the proceedure to commit anybody to prison, see my answer under thread 9 - 'Help I am going to be arrested'.

 

Also you only have to pay what is written on the liability order. Nothing more. So you can cut this man out of your life and deprive him and his organisation of any fees. Just pay the council and never bother to talk to this man again.

[I've got no money]

Fair Parking is absolutely right - but you need to write to the council - tell them that you will pay £x a week/month whatever you can reasonably afford direct to them. You need to tell them that you are paying only in respect of council tax not in respect of an alleged bailiff fees/charges. Tell them that you are not prepared to deal with their bailiffs.

 

Send a copy of the letter to the Bailiffs with a covering letter telling them that you are not going allow them access and are not going to deal with them.

 

Committal - A decision to apply to commit is taken by the Local Authority - it is extremely difficult to send anyone to prison for non payment of council tax. The Council have to prove basically that you've had the money to pay it and decided not to - if you have paid the council something - however small, although at least £3 a week off the arrears - it is almost impossible to send someone to prison. So don't worry about that they won't even try...

[I've got no money]

That said there would potentially be an advantage to a commital hearing - the magistrates have a power to remit some of the debt - so what they do is work out what you can afford say £5 a week - multiply that by 52 or up to 156 - (one to three years) which gives them a figure they then cancel whatever else is owed above that amount - it's called remission

[smad]

Thanks Fair-Parking and I've got no money, that put's my mind at rest for now.

I will send letters to Jacobs and the council first thing Monday morning

 

Have rang Jacobs office today to ask for a copy of whatever I am supposed to have sighned and the woman on the phone said they don't have any of the things the man implied.

 

 

The man I spoke to said My case has been to court, should I have received a letter telling me it was going to court if this is the case?

Thanks

[I've got no money]

Yes - your case would have gone to court - the magistrates court in the first instance to allow the council to get a liability order - the council would have told you - all they have to show is that you hadn't paid and that you were in default of the instalments. It is a routine almost automatic process - the council do dozens at the same time. The court issues a liability order which then allows the council to send in the bailiffs. If the bailiffs can't collect the money they notify the council who then have to consider what they do next. If by that point you are paying them direct there's not much that they can do - if you haven't paid them anything then they can at that point apply for committal to prison. You would then get a summons from the court.

[tomtubby]

When writing you need to ensure that you also ask for details of what fees have been added to your account. I would hazard a guess that you have been charged an "attending to remove/enforcement fee" on the basis that you have somehow "defaulted" on a payment arrangement. You need to ask....what arrangement ? Was anything in writing?

[WWOW]

I had a visit on Friday from a very unpleasant man, who informed me i have until Monday to pay him £1153 (about £300 more than i believe I owed)....

 

...He told me he would only accept the full amount, and if I didn't pay he would be applining for a commital order.

 

The bailiff is using intimidation. Bailiffs do not apply for committal orders - the council does.

 

I told him I wouldn't be answering the door to him as I just can't pay it all. He then said I had no chioce as he has a Levy and walking possesion order that i have signed, so he could enter my home at any time. (I have never signed anything.)

 

He has committed an offence under Section 4 for the Fraud Act 2006 for falsifying as document to obtain a money transfer for himself or another. Make sure he doesn't know your signature.

 

The man I spoke to said My case has been to court, should I have received a letter telling me it was going to court if this is the case?

 

You should have received a notice from the Council they intend to apply to the court for a liability order.

 

I would hazard a guess that you have been charged an "attending to remove/enforcement fee"

 

I concur with that.

 

Write to the council with your proposal to pay the arrears enclosing the first installment, something like this:

 

Name of council

Council Tax arrears section

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Address 4

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Your council tax account [REFERENCE] Arrears £[AMOUNT]

 

I understand you are seeking to recover arrears of council tax and instructed bailiffs.

 

On [DATE] the bailiff committed criminal offences under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and the matter automatically passed to the authorities. He said he would apply for a 'committal order' and send me to 'prison' he I didn't pay according to his deadline. The bailiff also claimed to have a 'walking possessions' agreement, as this is untrue, he is seeking to defrauded me in fees. The criminal element of this matter has been passed to the bailiffs certificating court.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt in whole and will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly installments.

 

This may seem a long time but it’s the only offer I can afford and it allows me to pay future Council Tax liabilities without falling into arrears, and I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

Meanwhile, please provide me with a written breakdown of the arrears by return post.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

Enc, 1st instalment £[AMOUNT]

 

 

 

Now dealing with the bailiff, download a Form 4 here. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

 

Ask the bailiff which court issued his certificate, and in the 'Details of Complaint' field enter the following (amend as necessary) and post it to the bailiff's certificating court.

 

On [DATE] the bailiff Mr. [NAME] knocked at the door of my home collecting council tax arrears and told me to pay £1152 by Monday [DATE].

 

I told him I could not pay that amount by that deadline and offered a more reasonable one I could afford. The Bailiff responded by saying he would apply for a 'committal order' and send me to 'prison' he I didn't pay according to his deadline.

 

The bailiff continued to say he was holding a 'walking possessions' agreement, and this entitled him entitled to break into my home and recover goods to the value of the debt and his fees.

 

I understand the bailiff is using unlawful force and falsifying a legal document to make a higher gain in fees than he would otherwise make and commits an offence under Section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

I also understand that Bailiffs cannot not apply for committal orders as this is at the discretion of the Council under Section 47 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and the bailiff is abusing his position of authority.

 

I respectfully ask that I am compensated for the bailiff’s misfeasance and the inconvenience it has caused me in seeking discovery of information.

[smad]

tomtubby I did receive a letter from jacobs saying they had agreed to the installments I offered to pay, that is all it says and nothing has ever been signed by me.

 

wwow, Thanks for the letter, have downloaded form and will be sending payment to council tomorrow.

 

Thank you all for your help, it is very much appreciated!!

[kermit2482]

Lets just hope none of you whom have replied to this thread end up in court to back up your actions as it would be a complete mess, In the first posters post it states quite clearly the bailiff said he could return and enter the property, QUITE CLEARLY as someone has implied in the letter they suggest sending to the courts, NOT TO BREAK IN, please be careful when you give advice and read the threads properly and dont misinterpret what you want it to read!!!!

[Markiemark1]

What the bailiff also said was that he had a WPA and had done a levy, neither of which were true. So apart from a slight amendment to perhaps force entry the letter can stand.

[Fair-Parking]

Kermit. Be more specific. What exactly do you mean by 'misinterpretation? Who has misinterpreted what?

[kermit2482]

Kermit. Be more specific. What exactly do you mean by 'misinterpretation? Who has misinterpreted what?

 

 

Read through the thread again from top to bottom and i think you will see what i mean, but i refer to SMADS first posts of what happens and then the letter stating what he should say to the councils , Courts.

[Fair-Parking]

I'd rather you outline the precise nature of your point. That way will prevent any further general misconception

 

Thank you

[I've got no money]

Perhaps I'm missing something but if you're told by the householder that I'm not going to let you in and you tell them that I don't need your permission I've got a WP - isn't there a strong inference that you're going to force your way in - isn't that how intimidation works