me verses natwest.. cca response help please

[paulwlton]

hey all, I cca'd NatWest on behalf of my fiancee about 2 months ago, today i have had this response:-

 

Dear Miss Curry

Re:Request for copy, credit agreement under section 77 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I refer to your correspondence dated 6 september 2007 (only wrote on the 18th feb??) regarding the above act.

 

Please find enclosed a "true copy" of your credit agreement as requested and a schedule of arrears.

 

When responding to requests made under section 77, the bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with regulation 3(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 (the "regulations"). This means that under section 77, there is no obligation for the bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor (including your name and address - although we often include this for your conveniance) nor does it need to include a signature box, any signature or dates of signature.

 

i trust this explains the banks obligations under section 77 and is of assistance to you.

 

yours sincerely........

 

 

attached to the back of this letter is a freshly typed credit agreement showing what the agreement should of looked like with no signature's etc.

 

Is this a typical response?? where do i stand now? can someone please assist me in a response to this letter as i'm confused as to what to do next. All help extremely apprieciated, thanks..

 

The OFT have interpreted the Act in a way which favors the finance industry (surprise). If the bank has lost the original he may recreate one from its banking records, as long as the information in the recreation exactly matches the original.

 

Does the agreement contain your name and address?

 

Don't worry i've a nice letter to for you to send back.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

hey, has any one been able to have a look at the letter and credit agreement yet, im just getting concerned as i've had the debt collectors on the phone again, should i start paying them or send them another letter telling them id like some proof that they have a signed agreement?? some one please reply.. thankyou

 

Don't pay another penny until they provide you with an agreement bearing your signature. Also if your address isn't included in the agreement they are breaking the law.

 

Was the insurance optional?

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

i can't remeber now about the insurance. have u still got that letter u said would be good to reply with?? cheers paul....

 

i had an idea last night but not sure if it would work. i was tempted to write to NatWest saying basically although i dont acknowledge any debt to you as i am looking at fixing my credit file quickly i would be willing to cease my claim for unlawful bank charges if they clear all of the outstanding money they believe we owe?? our claim for bank charges are around £3000 and they claim we still owe them around £5000 or would that be letting them off to lightly?? any ideas anyone??

 

Can you scan and post the reverse side. If it doesn't state that the insurance was optional then in any case, the agreement imo, would be unenforceable.

[paulwlton]

i will have to scan later tonight as i have'nt got the forms with me if thatys ok. what did u think about my idea??

 

I personally would always go for the jugular. But it's your decision, and it may be wise in your circumstances to try and reach a settlement. The banks have an habit of upsetting credit files.

 

PW

[paulwlton]

Even if the agreement contained your sig it would be unenforceable because the insurance was a condition of the loan and wasn't optional.

 

If the insurance is optional it can be included in the total amount of credit, if it a condition of the loan it cannot, therefore, the credit is incorrect, as this is a prescribed term then they're screwed.

 

Hopefully a big hitter will come along and confirm.

 

 

 

PW

[paulwlton]

If the agreement doesn't contain your signature, then how can the bank be certain you entered into this agreement. RBS/ NatWest may have incorrect records in your name.

 

Check out the link.

 

How trustworthy is your bank? | Money | The Guardian

[paulwlton]

You may want to adapt the letter below. Not many people are aware that the Office Of Fair Trading have confirmed that a "true copy" needs to include the debtors address. So they have broken the law.

I refer to your recent letter dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

You will see from your files that this account is “in dispute” and you have failed to comply with my s.77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 request dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

I am writing to inform you that this dispute still stands and has not been resolved by your company.

 

 

 

As this account is in dispute and you were aware of this and are continuing to carry out collection activity, I now feel that you are in breach of your obligations under;

§ The Office of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines – ;

o “failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

§ The Banking Code –;

o “not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

§ Your Consumer Credit License

As such, I must ask you to take notice that you must cease all collection activity with immediate effect. You have failed to produce a properly executed credit agreement in line with statutory requirements and as such I dispute the entire balance of the alleged debt as it is unenforceable. As there is no signed agreement between us, you also do not have permission to continue to contact me regarding this account, either by post or by personal contact, be that by telephone or visits to my property. In fact, OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court.

 

I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined in this letter. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this, as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police, to whom I will make a formal statement regarding your conduct given I have already warned you your behaviour causes me to feel harassed.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by calling me, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded and used as evidence in any further formal complaint.

 

If you wish to resolve my complaint, as has been suggested in your recent letters to me, you must supply the documentation previously requested to substantiate your claims against me under the alleged agreement. Failure to do so will result in my ignoring any further letters from you and the actions outlined herein being taken in complaint against you. I will not correspond further with you regarding this issue unless you can fully substantiate your claim as I have outlined.

 

Yours faithfully

[paulwlton]

No, they haven't complied....to comply the copy MUST contain your name and address. Write back and remind them of this.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

I would send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West asking for ALL Data that they hold on your partner as there seems to be some confusion about what is owed and on which accounts.

 

 

saint

 

Agreed.