A & L Trying Court second time

[PriorityOne]

Bach, I am so pleased for you .... the letter is fantastic news, but I am unclear as to whether it means that they are also not going to enforce the CCJ...

 

They're not going to risk court action for a property charge now though.... probably becaue the date that the CCA was received would come out in court. You need to look into getting that CCJ set aside now, if possible.

 

 

After reading it again... I am inclined to think that they will not enforce the CCJ either. Any thoughts from anyone else ?

[PriorityOne]

How can they enforce a CCJ given that there is no CC Agreement?

 

Wondering how they got a CCJ in the 1st place given no agreement???

 

Maybe a Judgement here that needs setting aside...?

 

 

 

 

Court papers were issued before the CCA request was sent off.... so a CCJ was obtained without being challenged in court (by default). As it stands, a CCJ overrides a CCA request... and payments have to be made because they have been authorised by the court.... but I wondered if the CCA was received before Judgement was entered. Going by the tone of the letter, I am enclined to think that it was....

[PriorityOne]

They have requested that the current action be discontinued

 

It may be an idea to get A & L to elaborate on that statement.... so that you have something in writing, Bach. You will then know what action still needs to be taken re. the CCJ.

 

[PriorityOne]

Hi Bach,

 

Fantastic !!

 

I would read the letter as... A & L are going to make an appication for the judgement to be set aside.... because it was A & L who went for the CCJ regardless of your CCA request. You can now write and ask for confirmation of when this has been done.

 

You've done it Girlie !! Well done !! One more poke in the eye for A & L

[PriorityOne]

Have just re-read the thread quickly.... I think you might have to apply to the court for the set aside Bach. As you now have written evidence that A & L are not going to defend this, there should be no problem with it.

[PriorityOne]

I will be raising a glass to you tonight Bach ... good luck with all your other battles...

[PriorityOne]

I have got old A&L debt I wonder if I could go down the same lines as you could you outline what you did for me please?

 

Are paying Global by any chance ?

[PriorityOne]

I think it is for about £3000 give or take after interest etc.etc. It is an unsecured and I do not know where I am paying to be honest cos just paying token £10 per month for god knows how many more years?

 

Do you pay by cheque ? Standing Order ? If so, who is named as receiving these payments ? Do you know if you have a County Court Judgement for the debt (CCJ) ?

[PriorityOne]

Hi Bach,

 

In one of your earlier postings, you mentioned receiving a letter from the courts....

 

Also recieved a letter from the Courts saying (17th April,) "

they have spoken to the solicitor and they confirm that this action is to be discontinued." the letter then goes on to say that

"we are informed that an application to set aside the Judgement is going to be made." No further payments are required and any further correspondence should be directed to A & L rather that Global

 

Letter recived from Solicitor (17th April) enclosed by way of service on you Notice of Discontinuance which today has been lodged with the County Court.

 

Under the circumstances, I think that you should ring the court on Monday and find out what's going on. The document that you've just received suggests that the court is going ahead with the Order because A & L's solicitor appear to have failed to lodge their Notice of Discontinuance with the court.... as stated in their letter to you . The court therefore needs to be notified that A & L have stopped proceedings against you, so that the Order can be "set aside, varied or stayed".

 

As for the wording of :

 

"It is ordered that

 

The application to set aside the judgement is dismissed as no gounds for such order within the Civil Procedure Rules are set out in the application"

 

This indicates that the Order will go ahead if you do not respond within the timescales that they have given you.....

 

Ring the court on Monday for clarification.... but whatever they suggest/agree to on the 'phone, remember to follow it up in writing (rec. delivery), with copies of all letters received from A & L to confirm that they are no longer pursuing the matter.

 

Does anyone else have any better ideas ?

 

[PriorityOne]

I have got a ccj for A&L I think and I think it is Global that I am paying. I do not know exactly how much I owe because no one has ever sent any statements of what has been paid and what is owed. Any advice anyone anything is welcome!

 

Hi Rosemaryednam....

 

Are you sure that you have a CCJ ?.... as this will determine any advice given to you.

 

[PriorityOne]

Let us know how you get on Bach.... good luck on Monday !!

 

[PriorityOne]

Any chance you can get something in writing Bach ? I'm such a cynic.... What happens if the solicitor continues to follow the wrong procedure, for example ?

 

It might be worth explaining to the court how worried you are....

 

[PriorityOne]

JonCris posted something on my thread about this Bach... I will copy and paste it.... give me a mo.

[PriorityOne]

Here it is :

 

bach did they discontinue their previous action because they had no CCA. If so & they still don't have one I would apply to have this new action struck out as an abuse of process

 

It looks like their solicitors never filed the Notice of Discontinuance after all !! Did you get any replies from A&L's solicitors and/or the court in May ?

[PriorityOne]

Bach... I have PM'd a couple of people to join this thread... but they probably won't be online until later. Try not to worry.

 

[PriorityOne]

Looks great to me Tomterm... !

 

Where are you Bach ?

[PriorityOne]

Is that your name on the bottom Tom !! Suggest you edit it out quick...

[PriorityOne]

With a good result, by the look of it !! Excellent letter.... duly rep'd

[PriorityOne]

Hi Rosemary,

 

Can you start a new thread on your situation ?.... as Bach's one is so complicated now that we're likely to get confused....

[PriorityOne]

Hi Lynn,

 

I was so sorry to read about your mini-stroke .... the stress of all this has probably contributed and you need to be careful.

 

A & L threatend me with a similar load of garbage about a facsimile Agreement, but I never received one. I am presuming that this is because they were CCAd before they had a chance to go for the CCJ.... which is a different scenario. However, I would be very surprised if they were unaware that they'd sent you an unenforceable piece of rubbish. If they were that convinced that a made-up Agreement was enforceable, then they would have sent one to me instead of flogging the account on to a different bunch of muppets instead.... there was a substantial amount still outstanding on that account.

 

I would be inclined to point something out to the solicitor.... they have already back off once before. What do the rest of you think ?

[PriorityOne]

Bach.... take a read of this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/25668-curious-twist-two-cca-17.html#post1126618

 

.... and go down to his next post about fraud....

 

[PriorityOne]

They can omit the signature box and name & address of the debtor if they wish to hide behind the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983. But they'd need the signed document in order to try and enforce it through the courts.

 

Personally, I would be inclined to point this fact out to the solicitor.... but am interested to hear what the others think.

[PriorityOne]

Ok Bach.... a suggested letter to the solicitors by rec. delivery. Please feel free to comment/edit/blow raspberries at, etc, etc....

 

Dear xxxx

 

Your Ref xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007. I have noted your comments about re-creating a facsimile Agreement. I have also noted the Terms & Conditions that were supplied with this made-up Agreement. However, without sight of the original Agreement, I am unable to confirm the content of the true documentation that I allegedly signed.

 

Therefore, although you may have complied with the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, the original signed Agreement would need to be produced as part of any court proceedings under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, section 127.

 

As you have already confirmed that no such Agreement exists, this means that a re-created made-up and unsigned Agreement would remain unenforceable by a court.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[PriorityOne]

This is a copy of my letter sent on the 15th Sept thanks to PriorityOne

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007. I have noted your comments about re-creating a facsimile Agreement. I have also noted the Terms & Conditions that were supplied with this made-up Agreement. However, without sight of the original Agreement, I am unable to confirm the content of the true documentation that I allegedly signed.

 

Therefore, although you may have complied with the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, the original signed Agreement would need to be produced as part of any court proceedings under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, section 127.

 

As you have already confirmed that no such Agreement exists, this means that a re-created made-up and unsigned Agreement would remain unenforceable by a court.

 

 

This is the reply to my letter of the 15th Sept

 

QUOTE " Thank you for your letter of the 15th Sept

 

You have now confirmed our clients compliance with the requirement guidance, of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, in providing you with a true copy of your agreement. They are trying to be clever and unnerve you.... you havn't confirmed anything ! Although they may have complied with the CCA request under the legislation mentioned above... it doesn't make it an ENFORCEABLE Agreement under The CCA, 1974... and that's the difference. Bloody good job too, or we may all be tempted to make up hypothetical Agreements and come running after strangers, shouting "Hey you Muggins... you owe me all this money... I've just made up an Agreement that you might have signed... although you haven't actually signed it "!

 

By way of additional guidance and in an effort to provide you with the fullest possible explanation, we refer you to an extract taken from page 3200 of gthe Encyclopedia of Consumer Law by AG Guest and MG Lloyd. Having conidered this extract, we hope that you will accept that our client has now fully complied with it's legal obligations and that your analysis is inacurrate.

 

Notice there is no mention about your point that the Agreement is unenforceable.... just that their client has "complied" with "its legal obligations" ;-)

 

"A document required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must be a "true copy" Case law on that provision has made it clear that a "true copy" need not be an exact copy but it must contain "every material provision" It's the signature that makes it binding though.... The purpose of the requirement under Consumer Credit Act is to enable the debitor/hire to check (in the case of executed agreements) to give him a record of the agreement entered into... Unless it's been signed, then there's no proof that it's been "entered into" it would seem that the use of the word "true" to qualify "copy" does introduce a degree of flexability at least in so far as presentation of the information is concerned. Not as flexible as to omit a signature though guys !

We do not accept use of your terminology "made up Agreement well, the truth often hurts sometimes.... but that is what they're saying they've done and hope that the above guidance helps confirm that we have now fully satisified our legar obligations as regards the provision of copy dpcuments. It is still unenforceable though... Any suggestion by you that the true copy we have provided is anything but a representation of the agreement that you have signed is inappropriate, and we will put you to strict proof to substantiate such claims" No... the onus will be on them to provide proof of the Agreement that you allegedly signed. UN QUOTE

 

So okay how do unravel this one, it really needs to be picked through very carefully and the last bit saying "Any suggestion by you, that the true copy we have provided is anything but a representation of the agreement that you have signed is inappropriate, and we will put you to strict proof to substantiate such claims"

 

Signed they have'nt got anything with my signiture on, Hu

 

Please guys can anyon help me getting very close now to the hearing

 

Thanks Lynn

 

 

[PriorityOne]

I thought Tomterm8 had already done a defence a few pages back. If not, then PM him again and he may be able to help with one.

 

Curlyben's post #88 also contains some good advice.