GSMGuy v Capital One

[the_shadow]

Crapone wont send out copies of the original agreement although what they do send probably complies with a s78 request.

 

You could either try the CPR method to get sight of the agreement although this will involve court OR you could try a SAR to see if they send it as part of the reply.

 

Of you could do what a lot of other CAGGERS have done and put the account into dispute until they provide an actual copy of the agreement but they WILL default you and pass you onto debt collection agencies if you stop paying.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Cant find one in the templates library so try this one...

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account Number:XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above request by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement.

 

Yours faithfully

 

I cant find a more suitable one, namely that the document you have sent contains no signatures and therefore is not enforceable save by a court order and in any event is not even a true copy of the alleged original agreement or lines to similar effect.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Thanks very much will get it sent to both Next and Capital One!

 

Mike

 

Cool, I've no experience of Next but Crapone will send a feeble explanation as they see it of what constitutes a s78 reply and that they will defend any action you seek to take against them

 

S.

 

P.S. Thanks for the scale Knock

[the_shadow]

I presume, I should just tell them I am taking none, and neither are they, as their agreement is unenforceable.....

 

 

Mike

 

Got it in one... they'll send you to the naughty step and default you... then its passing along the corridor to the in-house DCA's and if they still get nothing try a few external DCA's.

 

Some people have had this going on for years before it all goes quiet...

 

Stat barred in 6 years

S.

[the_shadow]

Ooo the anticipation...

 

suspect it'll mention you clearly have a valid executed agreement with ourselves and we will continue pursuing for the outstanding debt... any further correspondence will be noted but not responded to. Go to FOS and get a nothing response if you feel like it

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Right - Here we go.....

 

 

He said it's his final reply - So should I send him a letter saying - "Ok, lets get before a judge - Take me to court..."

 

 

Mike

 

Standard crapone response I'm afraid. If you continue non-payment they'll eventually default you and pass you either to their in-house DCA (room x along the corridor) debitarse or will pass you out to an external DCA. If you read some of the other threads on here for crapone its going to be a case of respond to each DCA with a bemused letter or a CCA request. Usually they'll send it back to crapitalone each time, some may take more than a couple of letters.

 

countdown to stat barred begins....

 

S.

[the_shadow]

I also have discoverd that if credit companies call you dont confirm the DPA (data Protection Act) details refuse to confirm your date of birth postcode etc and tell them you will only communicate in writing.

I am down from 20 calls to zero calls a day (thanks to shadow)

 

Thats brilliant news, I cant take any credit.. its you who is fighting back not me. This site is all about helping people out to fight there battles, the other side do not play fair and are big corporations with almost unlimited resources.... Keep up the good fight

S.

[the_shadow]

Shadow,

 

Don't suppose you have link to the "Bemused" letter, can't see it in the templates library, and a search turns up hundreds of results...

 

Cheers

 

 

Mike

 

Hmm it used to say.. "I am bemused why this account has been passed..." but now it doesnt.

 

Here in templates lib...

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

 

S.