Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Natwest Keep racking up the interest - PART II


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5139 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 237
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Steven

 

A belated thanks:p

 

Been going over and over the paperwortk on this........

 

Still have a nagging concern w.r.t. the final q from Shoos when they last wrote

"Please particularise the details of your account closure in xx xxxx, including details of when the accounbt was closed, evidence that our client (bank) was informed of the closure"

 

 

  1. What is the significance of this question???
  2. If the bank had sent a correctly detailed Default Notice, then surely this would have served as the notice of termination ????
  3. Is this an attempt by the solicitors to trip me up and have me say "oh but your client terminated this agreement, and did so in the Default Notice received by me on....." ???????

 

They have been unable to produce a default notice thus far, and i'm getting excited.

 

As always, Thanks, Vex

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

They seem to be implying that you closed the account. I would write back and say that the account was close by their client in around whatever but you don't know exactly because you weren't sent a default notice.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Vex,

 

Just re-read your thread, and don't know whether or not I have missed something. Have you had a court date yet????????

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

Link to post
Share on other sites

They seem to be implying that you closed the account. I would write back and say that the account was close by their client in around whatever but you don't know exactly because you weren't sent a default notice.

 

 

i'll pop that into the CPR 31.14 request that i am ashamed to admit has (is) taken me a week to draft!!

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Vex,

 

Just re-read your thread, and don't know whether or not I have missed something. Have you had a court date yet????????

 

 

Hello HHNF.

 

You haven't missed anything. I do not have a court date yet, although of course we are technically 'in court'. No hearing date, no date indicating when i will be required to turn up in person.

 

I mean if we all keep waiting i might as well not bother to contend it, as equity in house is fast dissapearing, and bankrupcy appears to offer a path of lesser resistance:p.

 

Vex

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Court Correspondence - "Notice of Allocation to the Multi-track"

 

Hi All

 

I have received letter from the court, and would appreciate some plain english guidance as to what i am required to do - Please:)

 

here is copy of letter, word for word

 

District Judge XXXXXXX has considered the statements of case and AQ's filed and allocated the claim to the multi-track.

 

1. Each party by xx xx 09 to give standard disclosure to every party by list. Any requests for inspection or copies of disclosed documents shall be made within 7 days after service of the list.

 

2. Each party by xx xx 09 by simultaneous exchange serve on every other party the witness statements of the evidence on which that party intends to rely in relation to any issues of fact to be decided at the trial, and any notices of intention to rely on hearsay evidence.

 

3. No expert evidence being necessary, no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence.

 

4. Pre-trial checklists to be sent to the parties by xx xx 09 and the completed Pre-Trial checklists shall be filed by xx xx 09. The claimant must file with the checklists;-

 

a) Copies of all statements of case (including schedules), witness statements and experts reports, which have not already been filed

b) a case summary not exceeding 500 words and draft listing directions which must include or attach a proposed trial timetable, allowing for all stages of trial including the judges reading time, and consideration and delivery of judgement. These document must be agreed with the other party if possible. If not the claimant must explain.

 

5. The trial shall take place between xx xx 09 and xx xx 09. Time allowed - 1 day.

 

6. If the claim or part of the claim is settled the parties must inform the court

 

7. IMPORTANT NOTICE. The parties attention is drawn to their duty under CPR1.3 to help the court further the overriding objective which includes ensuring that the case is dealt with expeditiously.

 

The parties may agree to vary the timetable, but NOT so as to alter the date for return of Pre-Trial checklists, a pre trial review, a case management conference or the trial date or trial window.

 

Any failure to attend of to file the pre-trials checklist, is likely to result without further warning in a sanction which may under CPR3.4 , include striking out of the defaulting party's case

 

So... I am looking for some guidance, as i am now VERY much in uncharted territory :confused:

 

Thanks, Vex

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Vex - translation (in red)

Court Correspondence - "Notice of Allocation to the Multi-track"

 

Hi All

 

I have received letter from the court, and would appreciate some plain english guidance as to what i am required to do - Please:)

 

here is copy of letter, word for word

 

District Judge XXXXXXX has considered the statements of case and AQ's filed and allocated the claim to the multi-track. straightforward - the case is alloceted to multi-track

 

1. Each party by xx xx 09 to give standard disclosure to every party by list. Any requests for inspection or copies of disclosed documents shall be made within 7 days after service of the list. You have to send the othe side a list of all the documents you intend to use in the case byteh date shown and they have to do the ame to you. You have 7 days after that to ask to go and see any of the documents on their list.

 

2. Each party by xx xx 09 by simultaneous exchange serve on every other party the witness statements of the evidence on which that party intends to rely in relation to any issues of fact to be decided at the trial, and any notices of intention to rely on hearsay evidence. You have to submit a statemnt of evidence - basically an outline of the argument you intend to use with the bits of relevant statutes pointed out and any relevant case law - they have to do the same.

 

3. No expert evidence being necessary, no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence. You can't call any expert witnesses

 

4. Pre-trial checklists to be sent to the parties by xx xx 09 and the completed Pre-Trial checklists shall be filed by xx xx 09. The claimant must file with the checklists;-

 

a) Copies of all statements of case (including schedules), witness statements and experts reports, which have not already been filed

b) a case summary not exceeding 500 words and draft listing directions which must include or attach a proposed trial timetable, allowing for all stages of trial including the judges reading time, and consideration and delivery of judgement. These document must be agreed with the other party if possible. If not the claimant must explain.You have to complete a pre-trial checklist - see CPR rule 29.6 - PART 29 - THE MULTI-TRACK and you must include this information as well

5. The trial shall take place between xx xx 09 and xx xx 09. Time allowed - 1 day. Trial dates

 

6. If the claim or part of the claim is settled the parties must inform the court Fairly obvious

 

7. IMPORTANT NOTICE. The parties attention is drawn to their duty under CPR1.3 to help the court further the overriding objective which includes ensuring that the case is dealt with expeditiously. This is a warning particularly to the bank not to mess about and try to delay or obfuscate

The parties may agree to vary the timetable, but NOT so as to alter the date for return of Pre-Trial checklists, a pre trial review, a case management conference or the trial date or trial window. Fairly obvious

 

Any failure to attend of to file the pre-trials checklist, is likely to result without further warning in a sanction which may under CPR3.4 , include striking out of the defaulting party's case Obey the instructions or have your case dimissed

 

So... I am looking for some guidance, as i am now VERY much in uncharted territory :confused:

 

Thanks, Vex

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steven. Thanks for that.

 

Just looking for some additional answers (i have two questions). The correspondence has come in one big chunk in past few days. :eek:

 

So. In respect of the court letter. I WILL NOT seek any additional details for that letter yet, save the one that i have to respond to first.

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d :rolleyes:) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this impolitely impatient, but i'm not likely to be online for a day or two from tonight, and didn't want to leave this too long so.....

 

BUMP (again - sorry);)

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Vex

 

Looks like it has gone quiet.

 

My opinion is that you can only work with what they have given you. You should prepare/outline a secondary stance in case they actually turn up the required documents but they are running out of time.

 

As with my case, you can only keep asking for the correct documents, correctly completed, until they can no longer submit them.

 

As for what you should serve on the solicitors, I can only see that you need to serve your witness statement plus the statement of any others you may call (their posty perhaps!) plus copies of letters sent. These letters should be numbered and refered to in your witness statement. Perhaps you could call every person who has sent you a letter as a witness to ask how that particular request was handled and what they did to fulfil it.

 

You must be careful in your statement though as if they have no documents they may be hoping you admit to taking out the loan/account or refer to a contractual relationship in some way. You only need to dis-prove their claim.

 

AT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steven. Thanks for that.

 

Just looking for some additional answers (i have two questions). The correspondence has come in one big chunk in past few days. :eek:

 

So. In respect of the court letter. I WILL NOT seek any additional details for that letter yet, save the one that i have to respond to first.

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d :rolleyes:) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

 

BUMP

Edited by vexlitigant
Larger font on the BUMP

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

They are hiding behind the 1983 regs. I would write back and make them aware that your request for a copy of the original agreement is made pursuant to CPR 31.14 not section 77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 which does allow them to omitt ones signature.

 

PW

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

First query:

 

So... in respect of standard disclosure - 1/ What should i expect from the solicitors - and what am i likely to get (will there be a difference?) To date they have not admitted to having a default or termination notice in their posession. If this is not furnished on me at this point, can it come into the proceedings later? 2/ What exaclty am i supposed to serve upon the solicitors???:idea:

 

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

Default Notice and Termination Notice - 1 year has passed since I requested these (ok it was via a Subject Access Request) and almost 10 months since I asked for these specifically. We have been in court since June last year, and they still have not got these. Here is the applicable part of their response to the 31.14 request:

 

"We have requested from our client copies of the DN & TN relating to your account (actually there are TWO accounts!! - Loan & o/d :rolleyes:) and will supply these to you as soon as we have received them. It is highly unlikely that our client will be able to supply this documentation within seven days and we will provide copies of the requested documents as soon as they become available to us"

 

Is this an acceptable answer to a 31.14 request ???? This is a long long time now, and I would have thought that this would have flushed them out. Where can I take that,. Is there any room for strike out application from me?

 

Appreciate any input here in advance

 

Regards, Vex

 

Right then

 

Q1

 

Standard disclosure is dealt with by effectivly a list of the documents they hold in their possession and will rely upon at trial. they will not send you the actual documents at this stage just a list of names of the docs they have.

 

you then have to ask them if you wish to inspect a copy of any of the documents they have listed

 

they may send you a list they may not, if they do not by the deadline then you should raise the matter with the court

 

You should also serve upon the other side as directed by the court, a list of documents upon which you are relying upon.

 

heres the standard form you use The requested resource (/HMCSCourtFinder/tiles/Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance) is not available

 

it is a N265

 

Q2

with regards to the second point, a reply to CPR 31.14 should provide you with documents which they have pleaded in their statement of case. it is not unusual for a solicitor to have to wait on their clients to supply this information.

 

however the purpose of CPR 31.14 is normally to allow you to access documents which you have identified as being central to your defence and without them you will be unable to plead.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second query:

 

I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request:

 

Agreement - Still insisting that they have supplied me with this, although it is not signed, and they are still asserting it does not need to be - Section 180 of CCA '74 and Cancellation notices & regs 1983 section 2(3) (a) & (b)

 

They are hiding behind the 1983 regs. I would write back and make them aware that your request for a copy of the original agreement is made pursuant to CPR 31.14 not section 77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 which does allow them to omitt ones signature.

 

PW

 

Thanks for that Paul.

 

BTW. You still got your thing going on?

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Paul.

 

BTW. You still got your thing going on?

 

Yes, we recently exposed RBSs accounting practices in the Sunday Times.

 

Keep up the fight.

 

PW

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right then

 

 

 

it is not unusual for a solicitor to have to wait on their clients to supply this information.

 

 

8 months !!!!!:confused: - to get hold of documents, and then a complete fudge about what they have sent me.

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

Still unclear about what I (me)am supposed to offer the other party by way of standard disclosure

 

ALSO. What do i have to do with the Listing questionnaire??

 

Thx

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...