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keith22 v Lloyds TSB


Keith22
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Hi Everyone,

 

I have three on-going battles with Lloyds TSB and my business account - two of which are not really relevent in this forum but for completeness I am trying to recover £4k of loan insurance missold to me and £1.2k for "Business Partner Scheme" which did nothing except make my situation worse.

 

My third issue is recovering charges totaling £1370 + interest. I wrote a really nice letter asking for a printout of my charges (Ltd Company so DPA not applicable). The response was amazing. My new Business Manager who is quite a good bloke and has proved helpful recently was on the phone within hours. His comments in a long rambling kind of way were interesting (don't think he has faced the situation before):

 

1) If you rock the boat you will find the bank gets inflexible

2) You need to be specific about exactly which charges you mean

3) We don't hold records going back six years - if you want duplicate statements you may have to pay for them

4) You should have kept you statements for 6 years (we have)

5) You can work them out for your self that's why we send you statements

6) You need to contact the Snior Business Manager ( I have)

7) The Bank is satisfied that charges have been made in accordance with the popublished terms.

 

Phew

 

I have now escalated the matter and have sent LBA - details to follow

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You couldn't make it up, could you?

 

If you rock the boat you will find the bank gets inflexible

 

Who does he think he is, Don Corleone?

 

Welcome to the LTSB forum, Keith. Good luck with your claims, you clearly have your hands full, but you have much to gain.

 

Elsinore

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Hi,

 

I held back on posting the LBA because the local branch phoned to say the Senior Business Manager had put a letter in the post to me.

 

Well.... received the letter which was short and dismissive of my points. He didn't answer any of them. His first para is interesting "With regards to the history of charges, Richard (he's the local manager) examined the recent ones, and is satisfied that all are in accordance with the Bank's tariff. We do not hold the records for the last 6 years, and should you require further information if you no longer hold your statements, Richard can obtain duplicates. I will ask him to contact you to clarify your exact requirements, as a charge may well be incurred for duplicate statements"...... and that's it regarding charges.

 

I have already extracted the information manually but did not include interest in my draft LBA because I was not sure what to do. My monthly statments have three entries:

 

Band A Overdraft 0.96% pm

Unauthorised Overdraft 2.20% pm

Hardcore +3.00%

 

I presume that it is just the unauthorised bit that I need to enter into the spreadsheets? Can anybody please advise.

 

There is a complicated background to all this but as I am approaching retirement, struggling to run a very small business and look after a disabled wife I could really do without the hassle... BUT they have taken my money and I want it back!

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Well, said, who the hell does he think he is?

 

Yes, it's just the unauthorised interest.

 

Best of luck, sounds like you've had a pig of a time of it with Lloyds.

 

What is the situation with the business? Is it still running with a bank account? If so it may be worth looking into moving your business account elsewere before starting the claim process. I am concerned that if they closed your accounts suppliers wouldn't be able to pay you and vise versa, which could have a potentially damaging effect.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi and thanks

 

Yes I actually have another small business account with a second business which really supports the loans on the first one. The original company is not trading, it has no assets, debtors and the only creditor is the bank. They have refused to allow me to transfer the loans to my second company so I have to maintain the first just to service the loans and make monthly transfers. It is this first account that I am trying to recalin money on to hopefully reduce the loans. Hope you can understand this as I'm not sure I have explained it very well. Just to be sure I have an account with a different bank for the second company which is operating in credit - just!

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Thats's good! It's worth just making sure you've got all angles covered.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Sorry - forgot to ask in last post. Does anybody have any information on how the Lloyds target scheme for employees works? Some years ago a manager told me they have 10 targets per month and have to meet 6 of them if they are not called to acount. Any info would be most helpful as I believe I accumated loads of extra charges on my business account which would normally not have happened as I would have been covered by a temporary increase in overdraft limit.

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Well,

 

Some sort of progress. My normal business manager rang to say that he had been asked by his boss (thats where the LBA went) for his recommendations as to how to proceed. He says that he has examined all of the proceedures, taken advice etc and that we are likely to end up in stalemate (really! I don't think so). He wants to meet at my convenience to discuss all charges etc and to see if a solution can be arrived at that "would benefit me and avoid the stalemate".

 

Now this guy is usually very helpful and has done a lot in the past for me but ultimately he does work for the bank. I wonder exactly what authority he has and why the matter has been passed back to him for his recommendations. I am surprised that my LBA has not been passed up the chain by the senior business manager (they received it on July 4th) - is this some kind of new tactic? It almost sounded as though this was the first time this branch has ever faced this situation and they were unsure as how to proceed. I'm sure that can't be right - they must all be well briefed by now.

 

What to do next? Has anybody else had this approach? As far as I am concerned the LBA stands.

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You're absolutely right about the last bit, Keith, the LBA stands. Unless your business manager sits you down and offers you a full refund, that is!!!

 

Actually it seems just like the normal response, but verbal instead of written. It's tempting to agree to meet him, just to get a feel for what they are up to. He might feel the same....Will this guy accept if I make him an offer of say £300 of charges refunded? There is no reason why you shouldn't ask him the same questions that you have posed in your second paragraph above.

 

You hold the trump card, which is the threat of court action if they don't come across with the lot. As meetings between manager and customer go, just for once you would be in the driving seat!!

 

Elsinore

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Just a quick thought as I am about to leave work. I want him to communication in writing what he would like to cover in the meeting. when you meet record the meeting...tell him that you are doing so. In the meeting only cover the points he covered in writing before so. This way you have time to prepare and won't be taken off guard. I will think about this some more on my way home!

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Had my second phone call from local manager LAST EVENING asking if I would like to attend a discussion on the way forward "at a time convenient to me....no battle lines..... open and transparent.......look at all charges......can continue court action......not trying to influence me....this is not a review....etc etc etc...."

 

Made appointment for Thursday and am delivering written agenda to the bank today. I really have to attend this meeting because I sent two letters prior to joining this forum in which amomgst many other things I complained that the Bank would not negotiate with me. I was hoping their refusal would help me with the Judge if the case ever got to court.

 

I have made it clear that the LBA stands and the clock is ticking. Action due on 18th July.

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Good stuff, keep us posted :D

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Well I went to the meeting and as expected it was a waste of time. I was well prepared thanks to this forum and had just about every document you could imagine with me. The manager was a bright cookie but he didn't expect me to have all the information I had so he was a bit incoherent. Truth is I thoroughly enjoyed nearly two hours of cut and thrust! Thing is they can make the figures show anything so I had a few minutes lecture about my responsibilies, "its illegal to write cheques without the funds to cover them" etc etc! The notes they had from interviews with my previous manager were quite something. I couldn't deny what they said but I barely recognised my own business. As a former lecturer I'd have given him an A* for creative writing.

 

I do need some help please. Apart from charges I am trying to get back miss sold insurance premiums, two in 2004 and 1 in 2005. I was told there was no way this was going to happen as the FSA was not around in 2004 and therefore the selling of insurance at that time was not regulated by them so I can't make a complaint to them if the need arises. Can anybody throw any light on this please?

 

Just as a final point he was absolutely adamant that charges (I presume on business accounts but possibly personal ones as well) are NOT generated automatically. In fact he demonstrated the process to me and clearly there was intervention before letters were sent out. Wonder if this true all the time or was this a one off demo?

 

Anyway we agreed to differ and parted very amicably. The LBA still stands and I'll be at the court door on the 18th with my cheque in hand. Funny thing is I think I can feel an offer on the way to me - that's how I read the final moments of the meeting.

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"its illegal to write cheques without the funds to cover them" etc etc!

 

I haven't heard that one for years. Not since they dicovered how much profit was to be obtained by letting us!!

 

Sorry I can't help with the misselling problem Keith, but there are others who will.

 

Looking forward to reading on, as I too have a business claim in the offing.

 

Elsinore

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Thanks for the support Elsinore.

 

You know I did wonder about that sentence. So if it is illegal to write the cheque where does that leave the Bank when they pay it and then charge us £15?

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Aiding and abetting an illegal act and then profiteering from the crime?! :)

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I do need some help please. Apart from charges I am trying to get back miss sold insurance premiums, two in 2004 and 1 in 2005. I was told there was no way this was going to happen as the FSA was not around in 2004 and therefore the selling of insurance at that time was not regulated by them so I can't make a complaint to them if the need arises. Can anybody throw any light on this please?

 

 

That bit about 2004 doesn't sound right.

There's some stuff here about FSA. Don't know if it will be of any help to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Services_Authority

 

Elsinore

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The FSA certainly was around in 2004, however, it didn't have the right to regulate... I've had a FINAL RESPONSE to my counter-offer re- a mis-sold personal loan, Keith22, in which they've offered to refund the LPI againste the loan, in order to "put me back in the position prior to taking the LPI".

 

Now, my understanding of Contract Law is that Reinstatement (Putting me back in the position...) is a resolution to Mistake, so I would interpret that Lloyds are very subtly admitting they have "mistakenly" sold me a loan I could not afford.

 

In which case I would ask that the put me in the position I was in prior to selling me the loan... Which was a hell of a lot better off than I am now...

 

Shame that I *did* actually pay the credit cards I took the loan for, so they won't ever deal with me, let alone ask for my £7k debts back...

 

I would send a letter Keith, to "Neal Lucas", Director of Lloyds' Customer Service Recovery Centre. (That's not advice, I'm just stating what I would do, were I in a similar position to yours, which co-incidentally, I am)

 

->

Neal Lucas,

Customer Service Recovery Centre,

PO BOX 112,

Canons House,

Canons Way,

Bristol BS99 7LB

 

Best Regards,

 

Oggie;)

Lloyds TSB Select Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Lloyds TSB Loan 1 Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Lloyds TSB Loan 2 Account S AR sent 12/07/06

A&L Premier Bank Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

A&L Premier Credit Card (MBNA) S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Morgan Stanley Credit Card S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Barclaycard Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Capital One Credit Card S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Royal Bank of Scotland trying to find my account details :oops:

 

Anything OggMonster types is his own opinion and cannot be held liable for any subsequential loss, gain or action from. He is also on Morphine, so would not be considered Compus Mentis in any court. Try squirming outta that one...

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Thanks Oggie,

 

I'll give it a try. I'll have a few glasses of wine then put my head around the letter. On second thought ... better do that first!

 

I'v become of the opinion that things won't be taken seriously by Lloyds, until such time as you actually issue either Press statements OR legal proceedings.

 

The latter always seemed such an obvious (and hard to back up) threat, but since I've found this site, and know I have £50,000 legal cover (either as plaintiff or defendant) available to me through my home insurance (check out your own policy peeps, you'd be surprised how little this gem of an extra costs - £14.50 for a year) I know now I can, and will, be able to take my complaint to the highest authority in the land... (How Tony Blair wishes it was him...) :cool:

 

Truth is, we shouldn't worry. We are, after all, the consumer and without us, the CEOs, Directors and other FatCats, would be in the dole queue if we all decided to flex our law-protected muscles.

 

The law is there to protect us, it just takes knowledge and patience to use.

 

Best of luck, and do keep us posted...

 

OggMonster

Lloyds TSB Select Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Lloyds TSB Loan 1 Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Lloyds TSB Loan 2 Account S AR sent 12/07/06

A&L Premier Bank Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

A&L Premier Credit Card (MBNA) S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Morgan Stanley Credit Card S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Barclaycard Account S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Capital One Credit Card S AR sent 12/07/06

 

Royal Bank of Scotland trying to find my account details :oops:

 

Anything OggMonster types is his own opinion and cannot be held liable for any subsequential loss, gain or action from. He is also on Morphine, so would not be considered Compus Mentis in any court. Try squirming outta that one...

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Update time.

 

Was going to commence Court Proceedings on 18th July - but thought I had better wait until I had a written response from my business manager following the meeting on 13th.

 

Guess what - I've just got the standard "One of our assistant managers will investlgate your concerns........" letter from Customer Service Recovery so it looks as though my local manager has escalated matters. At least I'm on the same track as the rest of the forum now!

 

I'll send "Fabian Yeo" the Case Officer a short sharp wake up call - just to let him know that I'm not prepared to delay any longer and on Monday I'll amble over to the local court and hand my form in.

 

Once the charges are sorted out I'll get on to the other two issues.

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Yes - looked at that name & thought at first it was too much vino - then too much heat - then me age.

 

Since its a standard letter they probably don't exist - I expect somebody is having a bit of fun at their end. Even if its some poor downtrodden clerk I fancy a mini rant about their time wasting - I'll feel better.

 

Not very important I guess but I've got to fill all these extra hours that LloydsTSB are going to make we wait. Still the 8% clocks up so its better than nothing I suppose.

 

Is it too early for a G & T?

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