Please help with CCAs

[pt2537]

Hi Heather,

 

With regards to the HFC agreement, a true copy MUSt be legible

 

this comes from Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) which states

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

 

if it is not clearly legible you have cause for complaint and to ask that they send you a clearly legible copy in compliance with the above regulations

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for responding to my request for a copy of the executed agreement relating to acc no xxxxxxxxx

 

However, i must pointout that the copy you have supplied me is totally illegible and therefore not in compliance with Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

for the avoidance of any doubt, the regulations state.

 

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote

 

 

therefore i require that you supply me a true copy of the agreement in a clearly legible form to discharge your obligations under s77 Consumer Credit Act 1974.if you do not send me the requested documentation i shall make a foraml complaint to Treading Standards

 

i await your reply

 

 

try something liek that, it should sort em out

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Hi Heather

 

to be honest, i suggest that you let peterbard look over them

 

hes the oracle on these sorts of things

 

i did notice that one agreement, the barclay card one is improperly executed but i really do think we should speak to peter

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Hi heather,

 

they do look broadly enforcable except the HFC one which i commented on earlier

 

the Barclays one is not properly executed but htat would not stop a court enforcing the agreement as it is signed by the debtor and does appear to contain the prescribed terms

 

the Egg agreement appears to be enforcable also.

 

the Application would come under s59(1) CCA 1974 however, if the document contains all the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor, application or not the court can enforce it

 

I would hold on for peter to take a look

 

Regards

 

paul

[pt2537]

 

127.

Enforcement orders in cases of infringement.

— (1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

(a)

section 65(1)(improperly executed agreements), or

 

(b)

section 105(7)(a) or (b)(improperly executed security instruments), or

 

©

section 111(2)(failure to serve copy of notice on surety), or

 

(d)

section 124(1) or (2)(taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123),

 

 

the court shall dismiss the application if, but (subject to subsections (3) and (4)) only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

 

(i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

 

(ii) the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

 

(2) If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

(4) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if—

(a)

a provision of section 62 or 63 was not complied with, and the creditor or owner did not give a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, to the debtor or hirer before the commencement of the proceedings in which the order is sought, or

 

(b)

section 64(1) was not complied with.

 

 

(5) Where an enforcement order is made in a case to which subsection (3) applies, the order may direct that the regulated agreement is to have effect as if it did not include a term omitted from the document signed by the debtor or hirer.

 

 

 

Hi Kennyparkroad

 

it is truely risky to take this to court on the arguement that the lender has not executed the agreement as the court has the power to issue an enforcement order

 

heather has signed the document and it appears to contain the prescribed terms so under 127(3) the court could see it just to enforce the agreement

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Hi Heather

 

Firstly, NO in its present form the HFC agreement is not enforcable

 

send em what i wrote out on the other post and wait and see what they do. chances are whatthey have sent you is all they have, otherwise they would have sent you a legible copy wouldnt they?

 

the other agreements i feel it is worth waiting for Peter Bard to look at

 

i feel as previously stated you would be foolish to take this to court on the basis that the agreement is improperly executed, after all as the consumer credit act clearly states a court can order the agreement valid and enforceable

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and

separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain,

shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below--

 

(a) the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

 

(b) the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

 

[© under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to

8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]

 

(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5,

9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;

 

(e) under the heading "Key Information"--

 

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and

 

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;

 

The above uote is taken from Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)

now both me and Curlyben have been digging around on this and it looks like the document from barclay card does not comply with the above as the signature box should be at the end of the document from my reading of the above,

so im sure CB has a letter in his vast library to send

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Heather, we well i certainly after looking into this believe that the form of hte agreement doesnt comply with the Regulations which state what order the info must appear

 

since the prescribed terms appear on the second page after your signature it is not inline with the lay out of the regs

 

coupled with the fact that this is not executed properly makes it a more damming case against em

 

thats my thoughts

 

as previously stated, if you only had the not properly executed arguement i would be very cautious but this certainly adds weight

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

Hi KPR

 

Hows the Littlewoods case progressing ? any movements yet?

 

Regards

paul

 

PS good luck heather

[pt2537]

No worries mate, they are nowhere near finished, ive just got the facts down on paper at the mo,. its the legal arguements im working on now

 

still hope they will be finalised in the next week or so, ive got so much on at the mo its sort of falling to the bottom of the pile so to speak

 

still lets wait and see what the chairman says

 

Regards

paul

[pt2537]

nah you just need to learn how to cut and paste hehehehehe

[pt2537]

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

[pt2537]

hows that

 

regards

 

paul

[pt2537]

Hi Heather ,

 

i have to be honest and say that the Egg one looks ok, but im not the oracle on agreements that would be for peter bard to look at. there is a chance he may find something on it

 

sorry i cant be of any more help

 

Regards

 

paul

[pt2537]

well i dont have a dog

 

but ive got a Giant House Rabbit if that will pass:D