AC2007 V Bank of Scotland

[AC2007]

I am just about to write to the Bank of Scotland regarding refunding charges applied to my accounts and I want to make sure I get the wording correct right from the start. I intend to reclaim charges going back more than 6 years as I have the statements to back up my claim. At present I recon that BoS owe me the following amounts;

 

Personal account from 10/08/95 to 19/04/96 £464.50 + interest of £427.53 = £892.03

Business Account from 02/05/96 to 28/07/99 £10,080.50 + interest of £7,972.61 = £18,053.11

Personal Account from 19/04/96 to 19/02/01 £5,210.50 + interest of £4,053.29 = £9,263.79

 

That is a total of £28,208.93

 

Should I write 3 separate letters or one combined, I was going to write;

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Sort Code XX-XX-XX Account # XXXXXXXX

 

Sort Code XX-XX-XX Account # XXXXXXXX

Sort Code XX-XX-XX Account # XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my accounts. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Bank of Scotlandof going into unauthorised overdraft.

 

The charges total £15,755.00, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money, I have calculated £12,453.43interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.

 

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £28,208.93. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

AC2007

 

 

Any help on whether to write one letter or three, and alternative wording would be most appreciated.

 

I am also writing to Clydesdale Bank reclaiming £21,563.21

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/117792-ac2007-clydesdale-bank.html#post1192824

 

 

 

 

Wish me luck.

[AC2007]

Thanks tilly, i will read through them all.

My concern is I have been told by Trading Standards that because of the amounts involved, I will not be able to go through the small claims court and will have to go to the court of session, which is quite frightening. I just want to make sure that I get it right and the case is not thrown out on a technicality

[AC2007]

The links above will help you, but as you are claiming over 6 years and CI, this thread will be very interesting for you to read.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html?highlight=bong+v

 

If you do decide to claim CI, then you will need to include this on your prelim and Lba letters.

 

Thanks for that, I have however been told not to include interest on my first letter, this is all so confusinf:eek:

[AC2007]

Thanks again tilly,

Is contractural interest different from the interest that the courts would add?

[AC2007]

Because of the amount involved and the fact that I am going back more than 6 years in Scotland, is it worth approaching a no win no fee solicitor, as I have seen some of them advertise for 20%

[AC2007]

Thanks for all the advice and links although I now feel that I have spent the last two weeks reading every page on the forums.

 

Even after reading all the help there still seems to a lot of confusion out there, especially for claims like my own that involves closed accounts, a mixture of business & personal and the large sums involved.

 

Can anyone clarify some points before I send off my letters to the BOS.

 

 

• I should send 4 separate letters to BOS stating that I wish to be repaid the unlawful charges taken from my accounts going back to 1995, including a schedule of all charges with each letter.
  
• If I wish to claim interest on the charges, does it need to be contractual interest and what rate do I charge?
  
• Do I need to mention the interest in the initial letters and in the schedule of charges?
  
• I am assuming that because the accounts are closed and the charges are going back further than 5 years, and the pending OFT test case that the BOS will just disregard the letters and fob me off, should I just then wait for the outcome of the test case, but at least I have my claims in the system or do I send a LBA?
  
• With the amounts involved and the time scale, these cases will not be handled by the FSO even if the test case (sorry when the test case) is won:) , and with the amounts being so large I can not go through the Small Claims process even with the new limits in January, is the only other option open to me to go to the Court of Session in Scotland with all the extra expenses involved?
  
• Is this template letter still the one I should use for the personal accounts or has the events of July 27th changed how we make our preliminary claim http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html

and this one for the business accounts.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/486-sample-letter-your-bank.html

 

I have used this spreadsheet http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/Spreadsheets/Scotland/Simple-bank-charges-calc.xls

to calculate the interest, is this the right one and what rate of interest should I use?

 

Sorry for all the questions but because of the amounts involved I just want to get it right.

I take it any advice given will be the same for the Clydesdale bank where I am claiming on 3 accounts.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/117792-ac2007-clydesdale-bank.html

 

 

Thanks very much once again, keep up the good work and hopefully there will be another large contribution to the site when both BOS & CB pay up. :D

[AC2007]

Tilly,

 

Thanks for the reply, but both the template letters mention interest charges, then you say that I shouldn't add interest.

Also as mentioned I can't use the local sheriff court because of the amounts involved.

[AC2007]

Tilly,

 

So how do I calculate overdraft interest is it a different spreadsheet then?

 

Why would filing the claims in England make any difference?

[AC2007]

Thanks once again Tilly,

 

So if I want to reclaim Interest i should use the advanced spreadsheet rather than the simple one.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/25457-guide-reclaiming-bank-charges.html?garpg=4

 

Does this mean I need to know the rates of Interest that BOS were charging me?

[AC2007]

I have just had a good look at the advanced spreadsheet and I don't believe that I have enough information going back that far to claim back overdraft interest.

 

 

Should I just put in the charges on the first letter or should I still claim interest as it says here.

 

Bank Charges: Reclaim them, they're unlawful. STOP PRESS! OFT Test Case....

 

This is where all the confusion arises from the differing advice.

[AC2007]

I have now sent the following letters, wish me luck.

 

Bank of Scotland

Customer Relations

PO Box 29112

Dunfermline

KY11 2ZX

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXXXX

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXXXX

 

 

I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my accounts. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Bank of Scotlandof going into unauthorised overdraft.

 

The charges total £5,675.00, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money, I have calculated £4,518.41interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.

 

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £10,193.41. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

AC2007

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXXXX

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXXXX

 

 

I am writing to request that you repay all the default charges that have been applied to my accounts. I do not believe these charges reflect the true cost to Bank of Scotlandof going into unauthorised overdraft.

 

The charges total £12,849.50, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money, I have calculated £10,791.24interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.

 

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £23,640.74. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

I look forward for a full response to this letter within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

I am now away to do my letters to the Clydesdale, I will keep you updated.

[AC2007]

Just recieved a reply from BOS and not unexpectedly this is the reply.

 

Dear AC2007,

 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding bank chargess.

Please accept my apologies that you have felt the need to complain.

I have looked into your complaint and unfortunately I cannot agree to reverse the charges stated. We only look into refunding charges over the past 6 years.

I trust this is satisfactory. If you require any further information please contact me on the number above.

 

Yours

BOS

 

Should I now do a LBA stating the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 or what should be the next move?

[AC2007]

Cheers Tilly, more reading for me

[AC2007]

Does anyone know of a template letter to reply to a bank (in Scotland) after they say they will not consider refunding charges over 6 years old. I have had a good look around the forums but can't find any.

As the amounts are so much and the fact that they go back over 12 years I dont want to make any mistakes.

 

Cheers & TIA

AC2007:)

[AC2007]

Macboy,

I have all the information I need so I am actually making a claim for charges going back over 12 years, I want to make sure that I word the letter correctly as my next move will probably be to appoint a lawyer as the amount involved is too large for summary action.

I have mentioned interest in my letter to them already (see above) was this a mistake?

[AC2007]

I am based in Scotland as are the two banks i am going after.

[AC2007]

If I need to use a lawyer would it not be better to claim near my home, because of the amount I need to go for ordinary action.

[AC2007]

UPDATE 03/12/07

 

Personal Accounts

 

About to post LBA

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXX

Sort Code XXXXXX Account # XXXXXX

 

 

I am somewhat bewildered by your letter of 22nd November stating that you will not look into refunding charges from over 6 years ago as my understanding is that under the current law found in the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 (as amended). The provisions on negative prescription set out when contractual rights and obligations are extinguished. There are two time periods: the short five-year period and the 20-year long-stop period. Both run from the date on which the obligation became enforceable and this will vary depending upon the nature of the obligation.

A claim for breach of contract generally becomes enforceable when there is a concurrence of liability (i.e. the breach) and actual loss. The pursuer then has five years to make a claim. However, given that a pursuer may not realise that they have suffered a loss until some time after the breach (e.g. where there is a latent defect in a building), the five-year period will not start until the pursuer becomes aware, or could with reasonable diligence have become aware, of that loss. This qualification is subject to the 20-year long-stop which applies irrespective of the pursuer’s knowledge.

As I did not know until the publicity this year regarding the charges then it can be assumed that I did not become aware of a breach until that time.

 

I understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £5,675.00 in charges as detailed in the full schedule which was sent to you with my previous letter.

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

AC2007

 

Have I missed anything or anyinput would be gratefully appreciated.

 

 

 

 

NO REPLY to business accounts should I just go straight to LBA as it is over 14 days now?

[AC2007]

Just looking for some clarity for this and my other thread about Clydesdale before sending off 4 LBA's:

 

On the personal accounts, get the LBA in to them regardless of length of time I am going back, without interest and then I will have to wait on the outcome of the test case. ( I will have to send them an ammended Prelim Letter)

 

On the business accounts, get the LBA into them again regardless of length of time I am going back, without interest and then contact the FOS after 14 days. ( I will have to send them an ammended Prelim Letter)

 

 

Nearly there.

 

Then ker-ching:p

[AC2007]

UPDATE 04/12/07

 

LBA & Ameded Prelim letter sent with no mention of interest, if I haven't heard from them by 18/12/07 I will inform the FSO.

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Sort Code xxxxxx Account # xxxxxxxx

Sort Code xxxxxx Account # xxxxxxxx

 

 

 

I am somewhat bewildered by your letter of 22nd November stating that you will not look into refunding charges from over 6 years ago as my understanding is that under the current law found in the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 (as amended). The provisions on negative prescription set out when contractual rights and obligations are extinguished. There are two time periods: the short five-year period and the 20-year long-stop period. Both run from the date on which the obligation became enforceable and this will vary depending upon the nature of the obligation.

A claim for breach of contract generally becomes enforceable when there is a concurrence of liability (i.e. the breach) and actual loss. The pursuer then has five years to make a claim. However, given that a pursuer may not realise that they have suffered a loss until some time after the breach (e.g. where there is a latent defect in a building), the five-year period will not start until the pursuer becomes aware, or could with reasonable diligence have become aware, of that loss. This qualification is subject to the 20-year long-stop which applies irrespective of the pursuer’s knowledge.

As I did not know until the publicity this year regarding the charges then it can be assumed that I did not become aware of a breach until that time.

 

I understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £5,675.00 in charges as detailed in the full schedule which was sent to you with my previous letter. Amended copy enclosed.

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

AC2007

[AC2007]

UPDATE 04/12/07 BUSINESS ACCOUNTS

 

LBA & Ameded Prelim letter sent with no mention of interest, if I haven't heard from them by 18/12/07 I will inform the FSO.

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir or Madam,

Sort Code xxxxxx Account # xxxxxxxx

Sort Code xxxxxx Account # xxxxxxxx

I am somewhat disappointed that you have not replied to my letter of 14th November and therefore must let you know that it is now my intention to take the matter further.

I understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my business accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £12,849.00 as detailed in the full schedule which was sent to you with my previous letter. Amended copy enclosed.

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

AC2007

[AC2007]

UPDATE 19/12/07

 

 

Letter sent to FOS as there has still been no reply from BOS.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I would like to register a complaint against Bank of Scotland regarding bank charges on two business accounts that I have held with them.

 

I first became aware that the charges which had been applied to my business accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law back in February 2007 and started to put together a claim using my old statements as far back as I could. I then wrote to the bank requesting copies of missing statements for both accounts and further information about previous accounts.

I have enclosed a copy of the paper trail of communication since.

Item 1

10/08/07: Letter to bank requesting information.

Item 2

21/09/07: Letter to bank as they had not answered my first letter.

Item 3

14/11/07: Letter to bank requesting repayment of charges (this letter included interest which I now realise I should not have included)

Item 4

03/12/07: Letter to bank again requesting repayment of charges as they have still not replied to me at all even after 5 months. (Amended preliminary letter enclosed).

Item 5

03/12/07: Amended preliminary letter.

I am now asking for your help in resolving this issue as it has now been going on for over 5 months and I believe that the bank are just ignoring me in the hope that I will just go away. All communications have been sent recorded delivery, so it is not as if they haven’t received the letters.

If you need any further information I can be contacted on XXX XXX XXXXX and I look forward to your assistance in resolving this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

AC2007

 

I await their reply;)

[AC2007]

UPDATE 14/01/08

 

Letter received from FOS:-)

 

Dear AC,

 

Acknowledgement

 

Thank you for your correspondence, which has been received safely.

 

We are currently receiving very high volumes of enquiries and we will provide you with a full response as soon as we can.

 

If you need to contact us in the meantime, please quote reference number ********

 

 

 

Now it is just a waiting game.

[AC2007]

I hope so.

[AC2007]

UPDATE 19/01/08

 

Letter received from FOS as follows;

 

16 January 2008

 

Dear AC2007

Your complaint about Bank of Scotland plc

Thank you for contacting us. I enclose our leaflet which explains how we can help to resolve complaints. As you will see, before we can consider a complaint the business concerned must have been given a chance to put things right.

I have therefore written to the business to let them know that you have a complaint, the business should now contact you for details of the complaint, if they do not already have them. If you do not hear from them within the next few days after receiving this letter, you may wish to contact them at the address given below, mentioning that we have already written to them. They should issue a final response in writing within 8 weeks of the date they receive the complaint.

For your information the business's address is:

Mr Hughes

Bank of Scotland pic

Customer Relations

Trinity Road

Halifax

West Yorks

HX1 2RG

On receipt of the business's final response, if you feel they have not put things right for you, or, alternatively, if you have not heard from them after those 8 weeks, please complete the enclosed complaint form, and send it to us along with any supporting documentation.

I have returned any papers you may have sent us in case you need to refer to them.

We will take no further action unless you contact us again.

Yours sincerely

 

 

What I can’t understand is that the bank HAVE had the chance to respond to the complaints, should I call the FOS on Monday and talk with the consultant handling my case as I have had a totally different response from the FOS regarding the Clydesdale Bank????

AC2007 V CB