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    • Honestly you are all amazing on this site, thank you so much for your help and time. ill keep an eye out and only return when i receive a claim letter for sure also, i updated my address with amex and tsb before i even missed payments. the initial address was my family home but i dont reside there. to avoid a bombardment of letters there i have now updated my address, will they send all threats etc to the new address? Or old address?   do you reccomend i send both tsb and amex my update in address via a letter?
    • Your point 4 deals with that and puts them to strict proof .....but realistically they are not in a position to state that within their particulars they were not the creditor at the time of default but naturally assume the OC would have...so always worth challenging and if you get a DJ who knows his onions on the day may ask for further evidence from the OC internal accounts system. 
    • I see, shame, I think if a claim is 'someone was served' then proof of that should be mandatory. Appreciate your input into the WS whenever you get chance, thanks in advance
    • Paper trail off the original creditor often confirms the default and issue of a notice...not having or being able to disclose the actual copy or being able to produce a copy less so. Creditors are not compelled to keep copies of the actual default notice so you will in most cases get a reconstituted version but must contain accurate figures/dates/format.     .    
    • Including Default Notice Andy? Ok, I think this is the best I can do.. it all makes sense with references to their WS. They have included exhibits that dates don't match the WS about them, small but still.. if you're going to reference letters giving dates, then the exhibits should be correct, no? I know I redacted them too much, but one of the dates differs to the WS by a few months. IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim. 1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 24/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Help needed with bank error!!!


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Hi Lizzy,

 

I'm not a Mod but am one of the peeps helping out on Barclays forum.

 

I'm also a succesful business charges reclaimer. If you're concerned because of sensitivity, PM me first and we'll see.

 

Slick

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Hi Lizzy,

 

Concentrate on making a full claim now for everything you've been charged to date. If they make an offer which you want to accept in the meantime, that's fine (but unlikely).

 

Follow this guide - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

Fill in the spreadsheet including all the details required.

 

Print out the schedule of charges but hide the interest column.

 

Send new Prelim letter, then LBA 14 days after.

 

Stick to the timescale and you'll be fine.

 

Slick

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Lzzy,

 

Have you re-started the reclaim process I set out in post #5 above by sending your LBA.

 

While the FOS should NOT reject your case because it is a BUSINESS a/c, you may find it easier to take the Court route and File claim at your local County Court.

 

The FOS definition of Hardship may differ from your own and this is another reason to file at court ASAP. The Court should NOT Stay a business claim.

 

Slick

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Hi Lizzy,

 

Experience from this forum tells me not to trust the bank re promises of "looking into your complaint" and "will reply fully within 8 weeks". That is why I think you should start your claim ASAP.

 

By all means, wait to see if you get a useful response - I really hope you do - just don't be surprised if it doesn't come.

 

Have you pointed out to FOS that yours is a business claim and is not concerned with the outcome of OFT case.

 

I don't think there is a black and white definition of hardship and I'm certainly not questioning if you are suffering it. I know, however, that many have tried to have stays removed on the grounds of hardship and judges have not agreed. How the FOS decides - who knows - but it isn't a case of right or wrong.

 

Re bank chasing for clearance of your o/d, you should be able to stop or at least stall them using the OFT Debt Collection Guidlines. Have a look here - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf - section 2.8(k) may help if you are reclaiming unlawful charges.

 

This would perhaps be more effective if your case were back on track with your LBA reclaiming all charges to date.

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Lizzy,

 

Thanks for your PM. I'm posting the main content of it below, so it's on your thread so others can help you if nec'y.

 

I've edited down the content slightly to avoid identifying exactly what has been done and by whom. Blueskies (Mod) has seen full version of your PM.

 

Quote from Lizzy's PM 28th Oct 2007:-

 

" I cant mention this bit on my thread as above will refresh your memory.

 

Well this letter I recieved yesterday regarding my account being over drawn was from my branch manager EDITED.

 

I rang him last Thursday but he wasn't their so left a message for him to return my call. He did the following day EDITED.

Anyway as he was not in the office couldn't do anything so he said he would call me back on Monday but didn't. This letter that I got was dated Wednesday but I recieved it Saturday.

 

Now this letter does look like a standard letter that would get sent out automaticly but it has his name on it and it also asked for me to call him but I'm waiting for him to return my call. He knows whats happening with my account he knows I have a refund of at least £1000 which will fetch my account back in line although its bank charge money which is my money again I'm owing them.

 

Under the cerconstances you would think that he would allow an overdraft facility to tie me over untill my refund comes through as I will no doubt have more charges added to my account on top of charges already added in September its like a vicious circle...

 

EDITED "

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Lizzy,

 

I've little to add beyond what I put in post #10 above.

 

The bank have not re-issued the offer which they sent to your old address - it may be worth a further phone call to chase them on this but they are unlikely to offer you a full refund in any event.

 

The FOS are not going to help you further at this stage from the tone of their response.

 

That's why I think it's important for you to progress your claim with the bank, NOW !

 

If an acceptable offer is made to you before you File your claim at Court, you can take it and drop your current claim.

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Lizzy,

 

IF any offer comes through from bank, it will only be a partial offer in reply to the amount you first claimed.

 

You started reclaiming approx 1500 in Feb. What chgs have you suffered since. I suspect you should claim everthing to date.

 

Update your SOC and this should be sent with LBA for the full current amount.

 

You need to quantify and formalise this claim to get the protection of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and stop the bank taking recovery action or closing your a/c.

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Lizzy,

 

What I suggest is you send your LBA off now but include ALL chgs to date - ie. all charges on orig'l claim + those charged since.

 

14 days later, you file N1 at court and you have proper grounds to halt any recovery action which the bank tries to take.

 

It's that simple, so do it now.

 

If better offer comes from bank, accept it and drop court proceedings.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

As you say, if you rec'd the offer when it was originally sent (to wrong address), this would all now be different. You could have accepted and may not have suffered the more recent charges.

 

However, because the offer is not brilliant and you've incurred further chgs since, I would send LBA now for all chgs to date.

 

I very much doubt they will negotiate on the offer so, if you can manage to survive without their rerisory offer for a while, it is time to take them on.

 

As a business claim, it may not get stayed re OFT case and, even if it does, the OFT case may be nearly done by the time you get to court. Time for LBA now !

 

If, in the meantime, your own manager gets a full list of all chgs to date and decides to refund to you - great, but don't delay because this seems unlikely to happen. Try anyway if you want.

 

They are NOT in the driving seat at all. You ARE and it's time to take the wheel.

 

Slick

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Hi Lizzy,

Slick132 You make it sound so easy! Wish I was brave! - It IS easy for me because I can look at your thread objectively and voice MY opinions. YOU are the one who must be brave, take decisions, and live with the consequenses of your actions.

If I go ahead with the LBA will I be able to stop recovery action on my account - could they close my account? Once you put your claim back on track with LBA, including all chgs to date, you will have protection under OFT Debt Collection Guidelines which bank has to (or at least they should) abide by. Barclays are not known for retaliatory a/c closure and they risk being reported if they do this after you send LBA.

If I have to wait until the OFT case is resolved I might be out of business by then. - If taking their offer now prevents your business failing, you must do what you think is best. You CAN accept their offer on your terms by saying, "Your offer is accepted in full and final settl't of bank chgs made against my a/c up to (date of the last chge claimed in your Prelim letter)".

We can help you do this. You will remain free to reclaim all subsequent chgs made to your a/c after that date.

This sounds like I wouldn't be able to make a second claim for the new charges? Also as I have new charges already applied to my account part of this refund will be paying that its like a vicious circle.... - No - see my last comment.

Wish someone had a magic wand! - Don't we all, but until then, you have to take on the banks as 1,000's of others have done successfuly, and beat them by reclaiming what is rightfully yours.

I feel like I'm being pushed into a tight corner. - Of course you do, and the banks have been used to peeps backing down for too long. This site is about empowering peeps to stand up for themselves.

We on this site can't make the hard decisions for you - that is for you to do. However, we can and will back you up whether you decide to fight for some or all of your charges.

Slick

 

 

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Thanks Tez and I appreciate your input.

 

There are at least 2 sides to any coin and Lizzy's probably bored of hearing just MY opinions.;)

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Hi Lizzy,

 

You can accept the reduced offer if thats your decision and I said how to do it in post #24, para 3.

 

You say, however, it's not your favoured option. Can you not hold out for the full amount or will this put your business at risk.

 

Bank, wrong address, etc in your para 3 - you tell them what you accept (chgs refund up to XXXX date) and if they pay the £1,050 then fine. If they try to change anything, don't settle with anything less than you are willing to accept.

 

FOS will not stay involved if you take reduced offer and it doesn't sound like they are interested much now anyway.

 

Send LBA either for FULL amount or for chgs taken since the xxxx date above. If you send it re full amount still this keeps your options open but gives you protection because bank debt is in dispute.

 

It really is time now to make your decision -accept their offer and reclaim recent charges in full, OR go for the full claim.

 

Forget FOS and branch's offer to look into it.

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FOS may stay involved but I doubt it - they have limited resourses and,I guess, a huge number of cases to d/w.

 

But I think if you accept offer, FOS will see that you have resolved the issues they CURRENTLY have before them.

 

You could still send your LBA for full chgs without burning any bridges.

 

Slick

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Lizzy,

 

It is as simple as this.

 

If you HAVE to accept their offer - accept it and d/w more recent chgs by reclaiming.

 

If you can manage without taking the offer, send LBA for full chgs to date.

We could do with some help from you

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Lizzy,

 

Are you sure FOS knows yours is a business a/c.

 

It would be rotten for you to wait for FOS to review on hardship grounds and for them to THEN refuse to fully investigate because you have business a/c.

 

Sorry but I don't know if what bank has said is correct - I'll try and find out for you.

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Got this from FOS site. Read FAQ 8 on page 3 - http://www.fos.org.uk/faq/bankcharges-testcase-quickguide.pdf

 

If you have a look around on that site, you may find more info to help.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

I hope the FOS help sort this so you are happy.

 

Just my opinion once more (in case I haven't made my feelings clear! lol) but you'll lose out if you take the bank's offer.

 

You should only accept it if you HAVE TO - if you can hang on, you'll get full settlement through FOS or Court. You may wait a while longer but you'll get all your money back.

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Sure, I understand that.

 

Hope you hear from FOS quickly then.

We could do with some help from you

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Lizzy,

 

Nothing new to report, really.

 

Business a/c cases SHOULD be getting heard in court but judges still need some persuading. And hardship cases are like rocking-horse poo !

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  • 2 weeks later...
It all doesn't make sense if the FOS are saying business accounts can still challenge the banks why are courts putting them on hold.

 

Good point Lizzy and one that we're working on to try and get these cases unStayed.

 

IMHO, the hardship line was never going to be easily accepted.

 

Hope you hear back from them soon.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

We're aware that the FOS think Business claims should be proceeding without Court Stays - trouble is, some Judges seems unwilling to let the cases move on.

 

Good luck with the new charges.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Lizzy,

 

The OFT test case ruling on Thursday makes it very unlikely that any further business charges will be repaid. CAG advice at the moment is that no one should start a NEW business claim, and ongoing court claims should be continued only if on the small claims track - so you're not exposed to the risk of the significant legal costs.

 

Try accepting Barclays offer immediately but don't be surprised if it is withdrawn.

 

If this happens, let us know and we'll advise further.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

The ruling on 24th April said the charges you're reclaiming are NOT penalty chgs. As this is the basis of reclaiming business chgs, it appears that a claim proceeding to court will likely fail.

 

As you have not gone to court with your claim, the question of legal costs is not relevant to you.

 

I was talking in general terms, saying a case continuing to court and NOT on the small claims track could expose the Claimant to significant legal costs.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

It's so soon after the judgement, we've had no experience of how it will affect business claims, ie, how the banks and the courts will treat business claims.

 

In time, I expect a case will go on for a full hearing and the court will make a judgement. This will not, in itself be binding on any other cases.

 

Only when a case goes on to be appealed will THAT decision set a precedent, as it will be heard at a higher court.

 

Okay so what are my options? The fos are still dealing with my case should I contact them tomorrow and get advise on what I should do?

Try speaking to them and see if they have any advice.

 

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't except this offer as I held out before and got what I was asking for?

My own advice would be to accept the offer made by the bank as I said in post #62.

 

Can the bank withdraw this offer?

I suspect they can, and may do so.

 

These are just my own opinions - I'll ask if any other Team Members wish to comment.

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Lizzy,

 

You also need to contact Barclays and see if they are still willing to repay the amount recently offered.

 

There's little point in debating this if Barclays are not willing to stand by the offer.

 

JMHO, as ever.;)

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