Orange - Fair Usage Policy

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL, sorry to hear the hassles you have had with Orange and their FUP. I have crossed swords with two ISP's on this matter and tbh it is a tricky issue.

 

Sadly it has been tested in court and they found that it was OK for ISPs to advertise unlimited access even if there was a fup attached which effectively then limited the amount you could download etc. I think that the other problem you have, is that after getting their first letter warning you that at 30 gb you were pushing the limits beyond what they thought was fair. You then proceeeded to more than double your download rate. This probably wasn't the best tactic

 

But, in fairness to you I don't think they have been reasonable in their timing from first warning to account closure. Their policy states that they will contact you twice before taking this action. I would try contacting them and discuss their agreement with you, saying that you don't feel you have been given sufficient warning and that you are willling to reduce your usage levels accordingly if they will postpone the suspension.

 

Of course this asumes you are prepared to drop your usage. If you are not then I can only suggest that you bite the bullet and move on to a different supplier.

 

Sorry I can't offer anything more postive but this is an issue with almost all ISPs and 30 odd gb is about the average before the fup start to cut in.

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL, Hope fully if you can have a sensible conversation with them tomorrow it may not come to suspension/closure of the account.

 

Ask them to check your recent activity and it should be clear that your usage has dropped back to a reasonable level. Assure that it will remain so and you might be bale to convince them not to close it.

 

As for the contract if they are both part of the same package I think they will have to cancel the whole lot which will include you mobile. If the contract you have is a for internet access and mobile calls and they cancel your internet access because they say you have broken the terms of the contract i.e. by excessive downloading. Then I can't see how they can keep you tied and liable for one part of the contract but not the other.

 

Hopefully someone else will be along shortly to clarify the situation here but, I guess some of it depends on whether you want to change suppliers for one or the other. If your download usage is going to remain at around 30gb then this may not be an option for you anyway.

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL, I'm not sure if it is too late but i have found in the past if you get a particularly objectionable phone monkey in customer services it's worth a try calling back and a bit later and seeing if someone else there is willing to take a more co-operative approach. Calling at 5pm on a Friday you likely caught somone at the end of a hard day. They were far more interested in going to the pub or back home to catch up on Eastenders than they were to make any effort to help someone.

 

If the CS line is open now try again and tbh you havn't go a lot to lose.

 

Did they discuss how they would handle the mobile part of the contract with you? Are they withdrawing the lot?

 

If they are adamant that they are going to close the account then you must get a MAC code from them. Your new ISP will need it to get you started and without it you may lose the connection then have to be reconnected, this can take weeks and there is usually a £50+ charge to do it. With a MAC code it can be done within a few days and usually without penalty.

 

Then I guess it's time to look for another ISP.

 

hth post back and we'll take it from there. Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL

 

I think before you go any further with letters etc. you have to be sure that you are going to be able to reduce your monthly usage to comfortably below 30gb a month on a consistent basis. If this is not posible then tbh I think there's little point in fighting this battle any more with them. You *may* get them to reconsider but without a reduction in usage you will be back to square one within a couple of months anyway.

 

Is this posible for you?

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL, try this...

 

 

Dear Sir madam

 

Re Account No. ******

Telephone No. *******

 

I am writing in response to to your letter dated ******. I understand that my past broadband usage may have been in breach of your fair usage policy. Howvever I have now taken significant steps to ensure that my usage is now, and will continue to be well within your indicated guidelines.

 

Your web site, which outlines your policy and how you will enforce it, does state that you will provide at least two 'warnings' before the threat of account closure becomes a consideration. I was notified only once that my use was excessive and the next letter from you informed me that you would be closing the ccount. This level of notice is therefore contrary to your your quoted procedure. You also mention that "with good will and support we'll work with you to see if we can avoid this [account closure] happening"

 

I have demonstrated my good will in this situation and agree to moderate my usage in the future. Therefore I would be grateful if you could please reconsider your decision to close my account at this time.

 

Should you be unwilling to comply with this request, I would be grateful if you could provide an explantion as to why you have not dealt with this matter in accordance with your published process.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

I have taken the following from their web site so you will need to include all the information requested below (in bold) so that they can deal with the complaint without delay. It also states that written letters can take up to 5 days before a response is received whereas emails will get a reply with 48 hours. Given the timeline you have before cancellation I would email this to them

 

 

 

• If you would like to e-mail us, simply go to our ‘help channel’ (Orange UK - Contact Us) and follow the instructions. We aim to reply to all e-mails within 48 hours. However, remember that e-mail is not a secure way to exchange personal or sensitive information.

• You can send your complaint to:

Orange Customer Care

PO Box 486

Rotherham

S63 5ZX.

25. How we will deal with your complaint

 

This will depend on how you make your complaint. However, when you contact us we will need to ask for:

* your e-mail address;

* the phone number from which you dial the internet;

* your date of birth;

* your full postal address (if you can complain in writing); and

* your password.

If you can have this information to hand or include it in your original complaint, it will speed things up.

Once we receive your complaint we will record it. If you write to us we will give you a reference number, which we will let you know and will ask you to quote when you contact us about the complaint.

 

We do try to settle all complaints immediately, but sometimes we may have to investigate the matter before we can get back to you. We aim to reply to complaints made by e-mail within 48 hours, and complaints made in writing within 5 working days.

 

If you are not satisfied with the way we deal with your complaint, you should ask for it to be considered again by someone with more authority. You can do this immediately if you are on the phone or we will arrange for someone to contact you. If you have asked for this by e-mail or letter, you will receive a response within 48 hours for e-mails and 5 working days for letters.

Hth, post back if you have any other queries. Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL, it sounds like they have carried out their threat then. Your letter may have got through, although with the post the way it is at the moment there is no guarantee. If you sent it by special delivery then you can check on the Track and Trace section here http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm to see if it was signed for.

 

Other than that it looks like you are going to have to find another route to get the cheap calls. Did you get a mac code from them?

 

One of the best deals I have found is 1899.com. It is a free carrier service so you need a BT line and you just dial a prefix number before whatever number you would normally dial. It is a free to join system and they are currently charging 2p per minute to Poland. I know it's not free but 2p a min isn't bad. It would also free you up to join whatever ISP you want, posibly one with a more generous fup.

 

Or you could try any of the skype type services. Although there is usually still a connection charge and it can cost a fair bit albeit a lot less than BT's rates.

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi derekmcl

 

Sorry to hear you have been having hassles from Orange as well. It seems like they are taking a zero tolerance view on this and other issues. I am aware that they are making these account closures with very little/sometimes no notice at all.

 

tbh it sounds like you're almost better off without them derekmcl, I would contact them and confirm how they intend to deal wiit he thremaining part of the contract. I think they are going to find it very difficult to hold you to one part when they have cancelled another part of a contract. If you end up having to change ISP make sure you get a mac code from them, it will make the change far easier and cheaper.

 

I woud agree with your cynical conclusion although I would expect that part of the service to be stopped soon as well. I would call them and find out exactly how they intend to apply the rest of your contract and then work it out from there. Post back here if you have any problems

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL

 

tbh your letter is presumably stuck in the postal strike so it's unlikely to get a response within the next two weeks. As they have already cut you off, I wouldn't think they even going to consider reversing this descision. I have known a few of these situations and while I have seen them agree to put off a closure I have never known it to be reversed once it is completed. I would call them again, explain the situation. Confirm that your usage will be lower in the future, push on the fact that you were not given the notice stated in their t & c's and hope for the best.

 

If they refuse to deal then ask for a mac code and start looking for an alternative deal. You are very unlikely to get a different result from your letter, and this way saves you waiting around for days on end while they take their time to get through the mail.

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

You're right Buzby and I stand corrected, although interestingly it was Orange that was involved in at least one of these investigations

 

See here for the adjudication from June of this year

 

Orange Personal Communications Services Ltd

 

if you search under 'unlimited broadband' you will find other cases where the same argument has beenn tried - and failed unfortunately.

 

You could try this is in the legislative court system but given that it has been pretty well tested by the ASA already I think your chances of success are slim.

 

MungoPL, I have lost track on your situation, sorry. Did you manage to get reconnected with Orange or are you with another ISP now?

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi MungoPL and welcome back

 

You could wite another letter but have you checked with Royal Mail to see if the first one was received? You last wrote back in October without a response and when you spoke to them on the phone they were less than helpful, only confirming that your account would be closed and offering a MAC code. Unfortunately I don't expect the reaction to be much different now.

 

I assume that you did not accept the offer of the code and simply left it? If this is the case and your account has been closed then whichever ISPyou go to may have to charge a connection fee. What are you being charged for on your mobile? Is this on the same £5 tarrif or has it reverted to PAYG or other? If you are still paying the same as you were you could have a good argument for asking that the rest of the contract package also continue to be supplied?

 

If you can let us know some of this information we can try and work out the best way forward. Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi Simon, thanks for the update and I'm sorry to hear it has finished in this way. It would appear that Orange have lost a lot of customers recently through many of the changes and ' improvments' in their service. Their customeer service, from my own experience, is appalling and you have to wonder how much longer they can go losing revenue at this rate before they realise what's going wrong.

 

One thing that puzzles me about your post is that you are waiting till your contract expires. Is this a benefit to you? If they have closed your account then I would think that would end the contract between you. Of course if it is useful for you to use it then fine but why wait if you don't need to?

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi Simon, tbh I'm not really sure. I have had a look through the t&c and the only think I can say for sure is that they have been very sure to make certain that all rules will have a sub clause so taht it either doesn't apply or will end in their favour anyway . But...

 

First option I would think is to request a copy of their code of practice.

 

disputes between you and us

19.10 You may request that disputes between you and us are referred to arbitration under our Code of Practice for Consumer Affairs. We will supply a copy of our Code of Practice for Consumer Affairs to you on request.

 

Your account was closed becuase you exceeded their 'fair use policy'. But that policy also lays out the steps they are obliged to take in order to resolve this issue...

 

What will happen if my use is very high?

If you only occasionally have very high usage, we're unlikely to be concerned unless it becomes a regular occurrence. If this does happen then we'll get in touch to help you find ways to reduce your usage.

If your usage continues to be very high, we'll get in touch again. Ultimately, if your usage still remains excessive despite our attempts to help you reduce it, we may have to suspend your service and possibly close your account.

We don't want to do that, and with your support and goodwill we'll work with you to see if we can avoid this happening.

 

So I would ask them to demonstrate what steps they took in line with this and if they cannot then say you will be making a formal complaint requesting that your whole contract be terminated without penalty because of their failure to comply.

 

They may find that it may be better to end the contract than have to deal with a stream of correspondance and the complants procedure.

 

Cheers

[Shanks]

Hi Simon.

 

Sadly, Orange customer service in this country has always been pretty poor, recently however it seems to have stooped to a disgraceful level - there are a lot of unhappy ex or soon to be ex Orange customers about, Orange Problems - Index - Orange Broadband, Orange Email, Orange Mobile Phones - OrangeProblems.co.uk (formerly WanadooProblems.co.uk) make for some very interesting reading.

 

I'm not sure why they are ringing you to tell you why your account was closed, you already know the reason. But it may be a good opportunity to ask them to explain about the steps they took to help you cut back on your usage before closing the account. If it doesn't match what is quoted above then you could ask fior it to be reinstated, be clear that you now understand the limits on this account and will try to keep it below that in the future.

 

I guess what I'm saying is *if* they do ring you, then give them the opportunity to remedy the situation, but if the still refuse to reinstate the account then ask for a copy of the complaints procedure. You have a right to request it, and you do not have to explain why you want it. Post back with their response and we can take it from there.

 

Cheers