I am just wondering why you seem to be so cagey in your circumstance as people with there own knowledge on certain CCcompanies will be able to assist you better!

Did you ever send off a CPR31.14 letter requesting these documents as mentioned in my posting #8? As you are the claimant you need to be ready with the knowledge of the legality of it all before you go into court tomorrow. I trust you have your bundles ready & have read up on all the relevant acts? When I was in court I had to put them to strict proof that my DN was suppose to have been served 1st class because as far as I remember it was 2nd!!!!!! DJ asked them for proof of this from MBNA & nodded when I stated perhaps they should have sent such important documentation recorded or special delivery as in my case having received my DN 2nd class it meant that it hadnt given me 14 clear days to remedy my breach. In your case having not received it full stop maybe you can ask for them to provide you with some proof? As your court date is tomorrow perhaps you can post up your copy DN and what defence you have stated so far for caggers to help you with asap.

If your not paying and they havent complied with your request it now becomes a waiting game. I should imagine they will make the first move eventually after all why should you now that you know they cannot enforce anything without the docs legally & you've done all you can so far to obtain them! Re SAR have you checked to see if your postal order has been cashed & did it go off recorded so you have a receipt of it being delivered? can you check to see if a postal order has been cashed? Other than this you could always send them a reminder pointing out they have gone past the deadline and as they havent complied you will be making a complaint to the information commissioner Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

Have you sent them an account in dispute letter then if they have not provided you with a copy of the CCA? Are you still paying them a monthly amount? When did you SAR them with your £10 as they have 40days to supply you with this info & was it a postal order you sent?

which ccard company is this?

Hi saintpaul, dont know if this thread will help you too. HFC/Restons/Charging Order - ***ORDER REMOVED***WON***

Totally agree

Spookey as you are v new to this site & as MKB who has posted on your thread is in a similar situation ahead of you have you looked on their threads re Black Horse.... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/211299-black-horse-loan-ppi.html http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/219960-black-horse-loans.html It may give you some further guidance on whats to come & what to send off for in preperation for everything.

I would imagine we would still need to see this DN via photobucket to see if its defective in your case or not. Also from my experience (day in court) when I got served copies of my supposedly orig DN's I mentioned that if that was a true copy of the default notice (in my case incorrect acct no's on it) it breached the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as it failed to set out the name and a postal address of the creditor or owner as laid out in schedule 2 of the regulations, regulation 2(2) paragraph 2. My copy DN from Restons was missing the MBNA's bits on the top & reg no etc (like the original had) so this meant it had breached the companies act, as it did not bear the companies registered address and registration number on it so was not a representation then. The judge asked the solicitor what he had to say in response to this to which his reply was along the lines of he thought it did have the details on it. The judge then corrected him by telling him it didn't as he had a copy of there DN from me in front of him I dont know if any of this info will help you having not seen your copy DN but hope it may be something to add to your defence if your DN is missing this information too. As for your credit card agreement or application form, have you requested your copy before it got to this court stage (in order that you can state it not meeting the prescribed legal requirements to enforce the debt? They should also need to bring the orig to court (should one exist?) so ask them for this. Consumer Credit Agreements - a guide to enforceability

:D:D:D:D:D:D

In my experiece you usually get a DN first then next can come a court claim form (altho understand you said you never got your DN!) Did you acknowledge the Court form with a defence before it got to this stage with an embarrassed defence to which the paperwork of the Patic of Claim relied on were not in your possession at that time? Did you ever send off a CPR31.14 letter requesting these documents? I'm just concerned for you that time is running out and your court date looms and there is no sequence of events before this mentioned :-? It sounds like you have now the DN sent to you (them leaving it last min!). If you can post it up for experienced caggers to look at (photobucket) then we can see if its a defective one to help in your defence.

My case went fine (July) and round one went to me although I am not out of the woods yet since MBNA wouldnt take my reduced payments like my other creditors did. Well as mentioned by others you were missold on your insurance then which you can claim back and I'm sure you'll get lots of help & advice on this from those who are more knowledgable on this than me. Do you have any other unsecured debts you are struggling with or is this your only one? A CCJ is a county court judgement which will mark your credit file for future credit anywhere. Do you have your own property by any chance, its just that should you get a CCJ and payments set by the judge are not met, then you could have a charging order placed against your property otherwise. I'm sure it wont get to that though but at least you know the worst case scenario with what these blighters can get up to

Hi spookey I hope you get it sorted soon, I personally have had to deal with a credit card court form and not a loan situation court form like you have. As you only took out the agreement form last year on this loan its likely that the paperwork may be intact and so looks like they want to CCJ you. If you are out of work/struggling, a court will only set payments based on what you can afford so cant believe Black Horse have been so quick to post out court forms rather than trying to be a little understanding in these times we are in. I dont understand the part you mentioned about having taken out insurance should you lose you job and why they are not paying out then because of your circumstance? I thought that was what protection was all about?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/218054-mbna-help-needed.html posting #35 is a copy of my 8000 character defence. Royalblue just did there defence too a couple of days or so ago. As CB says chop & change any of these defences to suit.

Hi Gaz when I was in court Restons were put to strict proof that my DN was served 1st class because as far as I remember it was 2nd!!!!!! DJ asked them for proof of this from MBNA & nodded when I stated perhaps they should have sent such important documentation recorded or special delivery! Monkeygirlindebt - The DN is dated 7th Jul for remedy by the 24th July. They have to give 14 CLEAR days to rectify any breach. Second class would have meant you were served this document Saturday 11th July. 1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7 This states:- Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post." 2. Practice Direction Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail. With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore. 1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. 2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:- (a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting; (b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting. "Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday. 3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used. 4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process. 8th March 1985 J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master Queen's Bench Division I am wondering therefore if the DN here is within the time scales Will day one be Sat 11th July (the day of deemed service???) if not then its 13 days Anybody???

Dont send the claim form to Payplan they will admit the debt on your behalf & the next thing you have will be a ccj then if you have a property Restons then will want to go for a charging order. Did you get a default notice from MBNA as it would be useful for you to post (photobucket) this up to see if its defective? Also can you post the paticulars of the claim form on here so that experienced Caggers can have a look at that too for you? Decisions going forward may be based on this knowledge aswell as your Credit card agreement details/date if known?? Any other debts I have are still with Payplan & have continued along quite nicely. I have only done to MBNA what they have brought onto me, my court appearance saw them off at the first hurdle although I'm still not out of the woods yet. With the help from others on this site you too will get all the assistance you need so dont be scared

MBNA did all this with me promising me a settlement over the phone to which I never got in writing (yet I chased & chased!!) They eventually defaulted me in Jan this year then took me to court in July which I'm still battling on with now. My CCA (Priority Application form should I say) was from 2000 & I had a faulty DN served on me aswell. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/185814-court-papers-help-required.html I think the judge in my case looked favourably on my side on the day tho due to the fact I had still been paying them (£20mth) until the court case so showed willing (I owed £11.5k on this card, but I do have another card with them also for a similar amount too). I also showed a letter from Dec to the judge I sent to MBNA in trying to come to an agreement of settling the debt (all being 25-35% of the amount outstanding), again it showed I had tried to come to an agreement with them. Maybe you could do a letter of this kind along the lines of you may be in a position if funds were available of £xx.xx which represents 35% off the outstanding balance and is all that you can propose. This offer is made on the clear understanding that if accepted, both you or any associate company will not take any further action to enforce or pursue this debt any further and I will be released from any liability. I also request, that if accepted, you will mark any entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as “satisfied” in full. Should MBNA still ignore it then at least you have your copies should you ever follow down the same footpath as me.

Did you ever send a letter along the posting #60 I mentioned with regards to your quote above? Just wondered as at least it may look like you tried to negotiate (all being at a low %) if it eventually does get to the judge stage.

Hi & welcome. This all happened to me in Feb this year with Restons, I am in Payplan aswell. MBNA were the only ones who were being unaccepting of my payments I could make at £20 mth. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/185814-court-papers-help-required.html I then decided as they were not playing ball with me to look into seeing if they had a valid Credit card agreement and valid Default notice in order to have the right to serve me these court papers in the first place. I got lots of helpful advice on here. Have you applied for your CCA previously? Also may be worth using photobucket to post up your Default notice minus your personal details for the experienced caggers to take a look at it for you.

Hi Jk36, my post on your thread #52 may give you an idea on ammunition for how my day in court went. Useful threads to read that helped me in my many an hour on this forum beforehand were What if the Judge asks..................... .... GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read...... Also print off the relevant acts to have to hand with postik notes within them for quick reference. Also read lots of other successes on the forums gathering as much knowledge as you can in preparation for the day. DCA Legal Successes - The Consumer Forums Good luck

The mean B-ggers!!! Sorry to read the circumstance your friend is in. My husband had a charge on his acct applied similar to that & rang up RBS about it & he was told to write in. He did and they did refund it on that occasion. Which bank is it that are being so mean, name & shame them thats what I say!!

Well legally the debt is in dispute and MBNA are breaking the law if they pursue you for the debt whilst it is in dispute. If you have already sent them a dispute letter back in May aswell and they havent provided you something that is enforceable then you could try sending something along the lines of this....(Edit as you see fit as I'm not sure if you've had a default notice have you? Also are you still making payments?) To, The Bank DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT Your Reference: BLAH BLAH Subject: Re: Account/Reference Number BLAH BLAH Dear Sir/Madam I am in receipt of your most recent letter dated XX the contents of which have been noted. Your response has no relevance to my original request which has been reiterated below. I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery (Royal mail Reference XXXXXXXXX) on XX asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a payment of £1.00 as postal order which represents the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. This letter was delivered and signed for on XX. For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states 78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— (a) the state of the account, and (b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and © the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor. (6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and (b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence. As such the account has been in default since the XX and a default notice was sent to you on the XX and this default continues until such time you are able to produce the agreement as requested. I am not obliged to and hence will not make any further payments to the alleged account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the Consumer Credit Act request expiring (XX). As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defense at law. I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states 127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced. To clarify s61(1) states (1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless— (a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and (b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and © The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following— 1. Number of repayments; 2. Amount of repayments; 3. Frequency and timing of repayments; 4. Dates of repayments; 5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable Furthermore under the ruling of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 the court of appeal confirmed that the prescribed terms referred to above must be contained within the agreement itself and not in a separate document Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the various pieces of case law and legislation quoted this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 as well as a breach of a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines. If Bank continues pursuit of the alleged debt or attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities as I deem fit including possible court action. I trust this out lines the situation. Thanking you, Yours faithfully,

Hi, have you read this thread by the site team http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/203298-guide-charging-orders-orders.html [/url] there are also details on here about removal too Removal of CCJ's - Step by step guide to the process Hope it helps

Yes I was reading about this on this other post yesterday page 8 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216538-claim-stayed-due-unenforceable-8.html#post2470841 Always makes for great readings threads like these being brought to the forefront

Just wondering if this is the same card details as per your thread posting back in May? MBNA Credit Card / CCA - quick query You need to really keep to the same thread as I notice you have already asked the above details so did you not do the acct in dispute letter back in May already? :-?