Hi again,

Sorry for being a bit dim, but can I just check I'm working things out correctly?

Between 1999 & 2004 I had 5 loans through LTSB Business Banking - I know 2 of these had PPI paid monthly (1 @ £7.97 per month from Jan 2000 - June 2002 + 1 @ £3.19 per month from Jan 2000 to July 2002), these 2 loans paid off an earlier loan (still waiting on SAR details to confirm if with PPI), which had paid off an earlier loan (still await conf on ppi). The 2 WITH ppi (I hope you're still with me) were paid off with a later loan (don't yet know if ppi).

Is it just a case of me logging each one of these ppi payments on the Compound Interest sheet by amount and date? Should I do something with the fact that these loans repaid other loans if there was/wasn't ppi on them?

Now, just to add more confusion to the mix when I paid off the 2 loans above that I know have ppi, Lloyds gave me a 'refund of loan insurance' for £126.71 & £50.68 respectively - not the amount I paid, but some of it. Was this a refund on my payments or on the future cover for the term of the loan? It's made me scratch my head trying to work out how this was calc'd. I have the loan agreement paperwork for the 2 loans with ppi I mention above.

Any help again would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance.

nope they are rolling

ping ims me thinks

dx

Ooo, how do I do that?!

Ooo, how do I do that?!

Hi

Don't bother...I've found you.

So these two loans paid off one earlier loan. Do we know whether that earlier loan had ppi on it?

What were the circumstances where two loans were needed to pay off one loan?

I see from your other thread that there is an issue with SAR....I guess your still waiting for a reply to the failed SAR letter?

Do I take it you do not have the agreement for the first loan but you do have the agreements for the later two?

This is not simple to do and we need to take it in logiacl steps.

ims

Hiya,

Yeah, I'm a bit hampered atm with not having the full details from my SAR. I spent an hour and a half on the phone to lloyds today (just about lost the will to live), and waited 3hrs for a call back from my business banking manager, but finally just when I'd given up hope someone at the SAR helpline picked up the phone.

They've had delays at their end in receiving all the info, they have found 5 loans (but can't give me the details because she didn't have the info to hand) and everything should be out to me by the end of next week. They won't provide me with anything regarding a Critical Illness plan and Income Protection plan the bank manager sold me at the time I got my first business banking loan (and this lead to a fruitless hour on the phone to protection helplines/scottish widows etc) which she says I'll need to go to the insurer for. It was all branded lloyds when they sold it, so it's just more stalling IMO.

ANYWAY, the 2 small loans that 'paid off' a big one, were actually 1 loan for pay off and an after-thought. The larger one (loan 3) went into the first loan, and then I went for an extra £1k (loan 4) to clear something else (really need to get my statements to remember how that panned out).

No agreement for loan 1, no statements, no confirmation of ppi.

Statements for loan 2 (for a car), but no agreement/confirmation of ppi.

Statements for loans 3&4 and agreements showing ppi.

Statements for loan 5, no agreement/confirmation of ppi.

I'm actually glad to hear it's a bit more complicated - I thought I was over-simplifying things!

Hi

So in summary as I understand it w have the following

Loan 1 kicked it all off but we don't know whether PPI was on it as that has not been confirmed.

Loan 2 was for a car and had PPI and although we have confirmation of PPI we don't have the agreement.

Loan 3 refinanced loan 1 and loan 3 we have the agreement and PPI was on it.

Loan 4 didn't refinance anything, it was a "stand alone" loan and we have the agreement and PPI was on it.

Loan 5 was not used to pay any of the others off, it did have PPI but we don't have the agreement.

Is that pretty much it?

From your discussions with the bank, can we at this point categoricaly say that loan 1 did not have PPI on it?

If the above is correct then we can at least make a start on some calculations.

ims

Hope this helps!

Loan 1

I don't have anything on this (amount, agreement or whether there was ppi). I knew there was a loan before the car loan, however until I get my SAR, I have nothing!

Loan 2

Car loan. I have no agreement, and I don't yet know if ppi was included. I do have bank statements

Loan 3

I have the agreement, confirmation of PPI and statements

Loan 4

I have the agreement, confirmation of PPI and statements

Loan 5

I don't have the agreement. I don't have confirmation of PPI. I do have statements.

OK

Loan 4 is an easy one so we'll start with that so you can get the principle.

The agreement should show the cash advance and ppi advance as two figures. Add them together to get the total loan amount.

Work out the percentage of the PPI relative to the total you have just worked out. It is given by the formula ppi loan amount / total loan amount x 100

Suppose for arguments sake that the result is 10.5%. It means that 10.5% of every repayment you made was going towards PPI.

Go here and download the spreadsheet called StatIntV101.xls http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

Follow the instructions on the sheet and creayte a list of the PPI payments you have made. Remember, it is the percentage of each repayment made that goes into the sheet. So if your repayment was £200, then 10.5% of £200 is £21. So it is £21 that goes in the sheet.

You only need to eneter the date of the repayment, the desscription (i.e. "PPI Payment") and the amount. The amount due back to you including interest is shown in the green box at the top.

If you wish you can then put in your claim on this loan by doing a fos questionnaire and sending it with a copy of the spreadsheet and a brief letter requiring refund to the lender.

Having said that, if it were me I would wait until the SAR stuff comes through, complete the remainder of the claims and send them all in at the same time.

Loan 3 could be affected by loan 1 so although we have all the papers for loan 3 it would be best to wait and see what we get for loan 1.

Loans 2 and 5 are missing quality information so we will have to wait for the SAR response again.

ims

Right! Finally I have my full SAR back from Lloyds and I have 2 out of 5 loans with PPI (or BLRI for business accts)

Loan schedule follows

Loan 1 Jan 2000

£4402.40 Borrowed which inc £352.40 in Business Loan Repayment Insurance Premium +£50 arrangement fee

Monthly payments: £99.55 (£91.58 installments plus £7.97 insurance)

This was settled Jun 2002

Loan 2 Jan 2000

£1190.96 Borrowed which inc £140.96 in BLRI + £50 arrangement fee

Monthly payments £26.94 (£23.75 installments plus £3.19 insurance)

This was settled Jun 2002

Loan 3 Aug 2000

Car Loan - No insurance. £150 arrangement fee.

This was settled Dec 2002 and has no connection to any of the other borrowings.

Loan 4 June 2002

£11225 Borrowed - No insurance - £225 arrangement fee.

Consolidation of Loans 1 & 2 plus additional borrowing

Monthly payments £191.73

This was settled on Dec 2002 from outside funding.

Loan 5 July 2003

£2000 Borrowed - No Insurance - No connection to previous borrowings.

Settled Dec 2005

Lloyds DID make 2 'refunds of loan insurance' following settlement of the 2 loans with insurance. Which seems to suggest the insurance was front loaded rather than monthly as per the agreement paperwork?

The refunds were:

July 2002 - £126.71

Aug 2002 - £50.68

However I make the total payments to my insurance

Loan 1 - £223.16

Loan 2 - £86.13

Which if added together make totals pretty similar to the total cost of the BLRI on the 2 loans above?

What do I do now?! Can I check what I do to correctly calc the money I should be looking back for from lloyds?

Many thanks.

As an aside I found it REALLY interesting that Lloyds couldn't locate the agreements for the loans that had the ppi (which fortunately I had already) but could find them for the car loan without ppi. Apparently the loans with PPI were TOO OLD to still have copies of - despite only being 7 months older than the car loan!

Hi

Is this to do with your thread here?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?337717-Calculating-PPI-Interest-Stupid-Question-Alert!-Help-Please!&p=3716279#post3716279

If so I'll merge them and we can go from there

ims

It is ims - thank you!

Two threads merged

Working on some figs for you...bear with

ims

Brill. thanks.

OK here's the method for you.

I am using the numbering reference you used in post #9

You will need the spreadsheet I pointed you to in post #8

Loan 1

The PPI is 8% of the total loan.

In the spreadsheet list the payments of £7.97 you actually made giving the date of payment, the description ("Loan 1 PPI") and the amount.

Take hold of the settlement figure of this loan and find out what 8% of that figure was. This will give you the amount of PPI loan included in the settlement figure. Deduct the rebate you received (£223.16) from this figure and you will then have the PPI figure that was rolled into loan 4. Make a note of that figure.

Loan 2

The PPI is 11.84% of the total loan.

On the same spreadsheet list the payments of £3.19 you actually made giving the date of payment, the description ("Loan 2 PPI") and the amount.

Take hold of the settlement figure for loan 2 and work out what 11.84% of it was. This will be the amount of PPI loan included in the settlement figure. Deduct the rebate you received (£86.13) from this figure and you will have the amount of PPI rolled into loan 4.

Loan 4

This did not have PPI on it but it did include some PPI from Loans 1 and 2. Loan was for £11,225. Find out the percentages of the loan 1 and 2 PPI rollovers included in this loan. Let's call the loan 1 rollover (as calculated above) X and the Loan 2 rollover (as calculated above Y.

The percentage for loan 1 is given by the formula X / 11225 x 100

The percentage for loan 2 is given by the formula Y / 11225 x 100

For each repayment you made on loan 4, apply these percentages to it to find out what the amount was for loan 1 and 2 rolled over PPI included in the instalment.

In the spreadsheet list these amounts for the payments actually made, again giving the date of payment, the description ("PPI From Loan 1 in Loan 4" or PPI From Loan 2 in loan 4") and the amounts.

Take hold of the settlement figure for loan 4 and apply the above two percentages to it. You will then have the final payments you made on loan 1 and loan 2 PPI. Enter these two figures as the last two entries in the spreadsheet.

That's it. The sheet will give you the claim amount including the 8% statutory interest.

Send a copy of the spreadsheet and fos questionnaire to Lloyds. They will have the usual 8 weeks to investigate.

ims

ims - you are a star. thank you for such a thorough response.

can i just check r.e. the 2 rebate figs - the 2 amounts lloyds refunded me were:

July 2002 - £126.71

Aug 2002 - £50.68

Are these the 2 rebate figs to use?

ims - you are a star. thank you for such a thorough response.

 

can i just check r.e. the 2 rebate figs - the 2 amounts lloyds refunded me were:

July 2002 - £126.71

Aug 2002 - £50.68

 

Are these the 2 rebate figs to use?

Hi

Sorry, yes those are right....I picked the wrong ones out of your post above.

Just testing

ims

lol - i'm on it!

thanks.

Hi folks,

Remember me and this claim here? WELL, I've just had my initial (final response) offer from Lloyds - much quicker than I was expecting! Sent on 19/3, received (allegedly) 24/3 response today.

Their offer calc comes in about £230 less than I worked out:

Refund of premiums: £225.66

Debit Interest: £92.63

Interest at 8% to 23/05/12 £284.73

Total: £603.02

On the basis of the figs in my earlier posts above I worked out the following.

Loan Breakdown

Loan 1

20/1/00

Loan Amount: £4000 - £99.55 Monthly Repayment

Plus PPI: £352.40 - £7.97 per month

PPI on this loan is 8% of Borrowing

Settlement figure is: £2711.09 on 13/6/02

8% of the Settlement figure is: £216.88

Less a Rebate of £126.71 received on 8/7/2002

Totals: £90.17 (Rolled into Loan 3 (Consolidation Loan) at 0.8%)

Loan 2

25/1/00

Loan Amount: £1000 - £26.94 Repayment

Plus PPI: £140.96 - £3.19 per month

PPI on this loan is 11.84% of Borrowing

Settlement figure is: £731.72 on 13/6/02

11.84% of the Settlement figure is: £86.63

Less a Rebate of £50.68 received on 6/08/02

Totals: £35.96 (Rolled into Loan 3 (Consolidation Loan) at 0.32%)

Loan 3 - Consolidation Loan inc Loans 1&2

£11225.00 13/06/02

PPI from Loan 1 on Each Repayment - £1.53 x 5 Repayments

PPI from Loan 2 on Each Repayment - £0.61 x 5 Repayments

Settlement Figure for Loan 3 is: £10,862.02

0.8% of this is: £86.90

0.32 % of this is: £34.76

Totals

Loan 1 PPI & Interest: £433.03

Loan 2 PPI & Interest: £173.02

Loan 3 Rollover PPI & Interest: £230.80

Total Reclaim: £836.85

Have I done something daft in my calcs above? Would their offer be classed as a fair one or would you pursue from here? If I refuse then is the fos the next route?

Thanks in advance for your help again!

Are you sure that their offer includes all loans?

What type of breakdown have they given you?

If they have lumped it all together, request a breakdown loan by loan.

ims

This is has much info as their breakdown includes:

 

Their offer calc comes in about £230 less than I worked out:

Refund of premiums: £225.66

Debit Interest: £92.63

Interest at 8% to 23/05/12 £284.73

Total: £603.02

 

Although, interestingly there is no reference in the letter to the actual loan number it's applicable to, on the Acceptance Form with the letter it states the SC and AC numbers for LOAN 1 in my figures prev quoted... which... on the basis of my calcs above would appear quite generous if it *is* purely loan 1 alone. To 19th Mar I had calc'd Loan 1 at £433.03 due plus £100.50 on Loan 3 rollover loan.

Had anyone else an offer letter from lloyds who has claimed for several loans - do they lump them all in or send over separately? I'm stuck!

p.s. IMS- thank you. you are always quick to respond and knowledgeable with it. MUCH appreciated.

Deffo ask for detailed breakdown and to which loan(s) this offer relates to.

ims

^makes perfect sense. i will do tomorrow.

hello hello!

well,

I called the bank and he confirmed the offer just related to the first loan, and that he would raise with his caseworker that the other's haven't been done.

At first he said because they were older than 10 years, to which I pointed out the one I'd had the letter on was the oldest,

then he said that there wasn't insurance on the others to which I asked him to refer to my correspondence

and he would clearly see there was insurance. 'oh, er, yeah - i see your evidence'.

He assures me he will have his caseworker review the other 2 plans and they will write out to me by 2-3 weeks.

I have asked for this asap, as I won't make a decision without having everything in front of me.

As an aside,

he couldn't break things down for me in any more basic a format than they posted through.

I'm ok with that though for the time being and then we'll see how it looks when I get my other letters through.

Why they can't just make life easy on themselves and send out all the info together I do not know!