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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.
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Credit Card agreement request template - COURT CLAIM

saitken

By saitken
in Financial Legal Issues

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saitken

saitken

Posted
Posted

Hello everyone,

 

This is my first ever thread on here, so I hope I dont muck it up!

 

I am interested in challenging my credit card agreement. I have looked at various existing threads and got snippets of information. As a start, does anyone know where I can get a copy of a template letter to request a Credit Card Agreement and what my next steps should be?

 

Thanks

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maroondevo52

maroondevo52

Posted
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Hello and Welcome, saitken.

 

Here's the template letters...............

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Who is the Credit Card with, I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

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maroondevo52

maroondevo52

Posted
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Thread moved :)

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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maroondevo52

maroondevo52

Posted
Posted

Hi, Stewart.

 

They have 12+2 days to comply with your request.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

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  • 2 weeks later...
ihpj

ihpj

Posted
Posted

They have 12+2 days to comply with your request.

 

Out of pure curiosity, if you post out your request on 1st of the Month and they get the letter (confirmed delivered) on the 5th - does the 12 +2 stated time frame still apply fron the 1st - or would it be more appropriate to take the 12 +2 period to start from date of reciept?

 

This is roughtly the situation I find myself in with my CCA to NatWest for their credit card ... basically I don't want to jump the gun and then later come across as being unreasonable/all too eager to default.

 

Many thanks!

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maroondevo52

maroondevo52

Posted
Posted

Hi, ihpj.

 

I'm sure its from the date they receive it.

 

Just hold fire for a bit longer ;)

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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ihpj

ihpj

Posted
Posted

Many thanks - I posted my CCA on 14/11; was confirmed received on 18/11 so my 12 +2 period will start from the 18th then :(

 

I will write to them on the 10/12 if they haven't replied. Oh well :)

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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

The +2 days only apply if you don't know when they received it as this is what is allowed for service. The 12 working days are from receipt and are full working days so will run from the day after service.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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ihpj

ihpj

Posted
Posted (edited)
The +2 days only apply if you don't know when they received it as this is what is allowed for service. The 12 working days are from receipt and are full working days so will run from the day after service.

 

Thank you for the clarification. Is my maths then correct:

 

CCA posted 14/11. Confirmed received 18/11 - '12 day clock' starts on 19/11 (which is the first day). So allowing +12 days from 18/11 means from 05/12 they could be deemed to be in default? But being a decent fellow ;) I could write to them on 08/12 (without prejudicing my own position) citing their failure to comply with my CCA request?

 

However I am unsure if I should err on the side of caution and wait until 10/12 to write them. Not decided yet!

Edited by ihpj
Promise to start my own NatWest thread when (if) I hear back from them!
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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

So allowing +12 days from 18/11 means from 05/12 they could be deemed to be in default?

Yes. Spot on.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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saitken

saitken

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hello Scott & everyone

 

I posted my CCA on 23rd November - but I used standard first class post. I didn't send special delivery/requesting a signature, so I dont know if and when it would have been received. Does this matter? Hope not!

 

Assuming it doesnt, how do I calculate the 12+2 date? Will it simply be 14 full working days from the 23rd Nov i.e. on 10th Dec they will be in default

 

Thanks, Stewart

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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

Does this matter?

Did you get a receipt of posting?

 

Did you send the one pound fee by postal order or by cheque?

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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ihpj

ihpj

Posted
Posted
The +2 days only apply if you don't know when they received it as this is what is allowed for service. The 12 working days are from receipt and are full working days so will run from the day after service.

 

The above is for your benefit saitken - hope it clarifies the situation for you:

 

Your period will be 14 working days, not counting the date you posted your letter. By my maths, your day of default will begin on Friday 12 December (obviously this takes into account if they take the full period and do not reply).

 

HTH!

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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

Not really, although it would be useful. Normal post is deemed served after 2 days (that's where the +2 days bit comes from). The courts send documents by normal post and, unless they hear otherwise, always assume that documents have been served. They do not bother getting a receipt of posting.

 

Keep an eye out though for when that cheque is cashed as that will prove that they received your request.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

So assuming I do not receive a reply by 12th Dec what should I do next?

You don't have to do anything unless they ask you for payment.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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rory32

rory32

Posted
Posted

Probably but you can quickly get the DCA to drop the account and hand it back.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 2 weeks later...
saitken

saitken

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hello

 

It is now past the 12+2 date and I have not had a reply to my request for CCA. I also notice that NatWest have not cashed my cheque for £1 yet either. Any advice as to what I should do now?!

 

Cheers, Stewart

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saitken

saitken

Posted
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Hi

 

I have now received a CCA from MBNA. I sent two - one for NatWest and one for MBNA (Alliance & Leicester). It all looks in order. Correct name address etc and is signed and dated by myself. But, the letter it came with was dates on 18th Dec. After the 12+2 date. Does this mean it is not applicable as it was not received within the 12+2 day time period?

 

Stewart

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maroondevo52

maroondevo52

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi, Stewart.

 

A bit info regarding the CCA...............

 

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

 

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

 

 

 

Can you scan what they have sent you, so people can have a look and confirm it's enforceable.

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Edited by maroondevo52
Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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