CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[sosumi]

I missed it too A1. Will see if they're showing it online.

Allwood - top stuff about Equifax, saw your earlier posts. Just sorry they can cause so much distress and not apparently give a flying fig about the actual people the credit records are about!

The 'trace' from BCW we both had on Equifax is so going to be chased up by us. It's part of a much bigger TSB thing.

But tomorrow it's DLC... We're going to ring the Land Registry for an appointment, taking the letter DLC sent me. I don't think the Land Registry are in any way involved the way CRAs are, but I'd like to see if a 'successful application' by DLC (which sounds very official) was actually recorded anywhere on our Land Registry record.

Things for us are at a snail's pace at the minute, as we're both under the weather. But we'll catch up soon!

[sosumi]

Okay, confession. I do believe my back is breaking - or it feels like that anyway, hence intermittent posts... more than usual:oops: Yesterday, fired with enthusiasm, we looked for the DLC letter to take to the Land Registry.. and couldn't find it! Stalled! But we've found it again now. But I couldn't make a coherent phone call now so it'll have to wait.

I feel hopelessly behind on everything. Since last year we've amassed huge amounts of paperwork and it's a struggle to keep on top of things. Hubby's foot is on the mend which is a huge relief as I'm struggling to walk.

Off to see the doc again tomorrow. If it's a trapped nerve then I suppose the advice will be 'it'll loosen with rest'. But how the ***l do you rest when you constantly feel like you're on the offensive?

Allwood - thanks for your message I feel like you do, frightened a lot of the time. We're in nowhere near as much as a mess as we were last year. We managed to get a remortgage in June with a fixed monthly repayment for 3 years - high interest obviously but it's helped. Now we're tackling the remaining creditors who chose, notwithstanding our best efforts to pay them with Payplan, to dump us on DCAs. The behaviour of DCAs are very often unforgiveable. I've never encountered a bigger bunch of crooks and liars. If we had the money - and obviously we don't, we'd take them to court ourselves for the stress they've put us through. They lie constantly.

If we were in any other position than trying to sort out our finances, we'd sue them for misrepresentation, defamation of character and fraud.

But because we're in debt, we're 'debtors' and once they can refer to you as 'debtors' hell, anything goes!

The whole thing makes me so bl***y angry!

And what the **** is the deal with Credit Reference Agencies? Supposedly the 'consumer's friend', when you scratch the surface and since how entangled they are with creditors and Debt Collection Agencies, it makes you feel ill.

How do they get away with it? How?

 

Okay, rant over. But now the Government has 'lost' 25 million private details of people in this country, these sump DCAs could have a field day.

I'm not a particularly logical person. I write and think by instinct. I'm not very efficient, so this forum has been a lifeline, truly.

I wrote an article for a professional magazine, published earlier this month, about DCAs. The deadline for submission was the day before we all heard about Beryl Brazier's death. What happened to her has caused me so much grief - as I expect it has a lot of people here - because we can imagine something of what she went through. In a way I'm glad the article was submitted before we heard the news about what happened to her.

I don't think I could have written it after hearing of her death.

PM me to read the scanned copy, and hope the publishers will agree that it's important enough to let people know (especially here) that there are forces at work - outside the financial 'community' - to get these crooked DCAs gone - either shut down or forced to change:

Mental illness and debt go hand in hand. I don't know which comes first. I do know that DCAs are 'head-monsters' - they want money and don't care what they do to people to get it. Very often they use illegal methods - but who knew before CAG that there are ways to challenge them, legally.

CAG is empowering. We don't have to take that DCA ***p. And when we challenge them, expose their unscrupulous tactics, they trip over their nasty little 'techniques' again and again.

So what has this to do with CRAs? EVERYTHING! In the course of a year our credit history has been wrecked utterly. And even looking at our credit files seems to generate a raft of unsolicited, unwarranted mail from companies offering loans, remortgages etc... and DCAs chasing up other people's debts! This is why the 'marketing information' CRAs provide (at a price) alarms me. But while the CRAs are seen as 'authoritative' and somehow 'governmental', while their PR suggests that they're 'consumer advisors', no-one in authority wants to challenge them.

This stinks. And it's all wrapped up with DCAs - even more stinky.

Fall behind with credit payments and you quickly become 'a debtor'. And then you're 'fair game' to DCAs who can apparently muck about with your personal information as much as their sour hearts' desire.

And what does it cost to be a DCA? Bugger all really. They are actively subverting the law to their own ends. If you've got the money and a heart of sewer mud, you can 'set up' pretty easily. Then join their 'clubs', do a web page, get 'respectable', get 'credentials'... they're odious.

Odious.

Rant 2 over. Sorry but feeling rough and needed to get it off my chest!

[sosumi]

I think Experian are aiming to monopolise the information file 'market'. Has anyone been able to draw breath recently without noticing CreditExpert?

My goodness they're everywhere. And just in case people miss the millions of links to Experian's CreditExpert site, they've added a new site, just to link to the same CreditExpert site.

I've just done another Google Search, for 'credit report'. Here they are, the top 2 of the paid listings:

Credit Report for £0

www.Experian.co.uk/creditreport Get your credit report for free with CreditExpert from Experian Free Credit Report

www.creditcheckforFREE.co.uk Get your Experian credit report for £0 at creditcheckforFREE.co.uk

 

Same people, same company, same site. Different smiley faces. Both sending you to CreditExpert.co.uk.

I'm starting to feel sorry (not) for Equifax and CallCredit. Experian are doing a Microsoftly softly...

 

[sosumi]

Plus I spoke to the Land Registry today. No application received by them for DLC. Well fancy that - a DCA pork pie!

[sosumi]

Has anybody seen this before? It's from June 2006:

A chancy name to have in Wales

Quote:

... And while Direct Legal & Collections (DLC) may have got the debtor's name right, yours is the most common surname in the whole of Wales.

Curiously though, DLC's demand begins: 'We are unable to accept your offer as we feel it is unrealistic in comparison to the balance outstanding.' So at some point, the debt collectors were in touch with the real debtor at a different address.

I repeatedly invited Experian to comment on what linked you to this debt. Experian said nothing.

DLC itself told me the information from Experian should have been double-checked, but 'on this particular occasion we have not adhered to these strict verification checks'.

I've just come across it. Apologies if it's been quoted before, but I'm gobsmacked by the similarity of this person's case to another - resulting in suicide - just months ago.

 

[sosumi]

A strange thing happened last week (or week before, am losing marbles as Christmas approaches!).

I had to phone the NHS - the central booking department for our area - to confirm choice of hospital for an appointment. I gave them our number. That evening, I had a call from a 'withheld number' and chose to answer it.

The bloke on the phone asked if I'd had a copy of a local 'Recorder' (ie. local paper). I said no, and we're x-directory, how did he get our number? He went all flustered and said 'the phone directory or something, I don't know...' I said, so you're calling from the '(local) Recorder' then? He said 'Yes.' I said 'Can I have your name, address and telephone number please?' The phone went dead.

Coincidence?

[sosumi]

... All coming out in the wash, isn't it? CRAs 'brokering loans', subhuman DCAs with access to private information they don't have any right to, data CDs going missing here there and everywhere...

[sosumi]

Experian Autotrace

 

Experian Autotrace Product Menu

WELCOME TO AUTOTRACE

 

Autotrace is Experian’s debtor tracing solution that enables organisations to locate individuals with whom they have lost contact. Autotrace can trace a person from their last known address to a later address, and it can also confirm that a person is active at their current address (possibly where they have claimed to be no longer resident). Where less information is known about an individual, he can be traced to an address based on a name and date of birth only.

Unsuccessful trace requests are placed on Constant Review, whereby Autotrace will automatically notify you if new data is matched to the individual on review. Autotrace can also assist with your efforts to contact a traced individual by finding and returning their residential telephone number.

Their Terms and Conditions are here:

Consumer Report

 

Last bullet point, section 5:

5. Use of Information

 

You undertake that you shall:

• use the information solely for the purposes of debt recovery in order to locate the home address only of debtors and (except as is required by law) will not divulge or disclose all or any part of the information to any third party;
  
• take reasonable steps to confirm the identity of a debtor before taking any action to recover the relevant debt where the information/services provide a home address for that debtor;
  
• not identify us to any debtor or other third party as the source of any data relating to a debtor.

[sosumi]

From here:

CSA Website

CSA seeks clarification on ‘Reasonable’ action to validate data received from Credit Reference Agenc

 

Date: 04-01-2008

The Association met with the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) recently to discuss how the industry should address the issue of validating data from credit reference agencies in relation to tracing ‘gone-aways’.

 

Representatives from the Association clarified the processes involved in tracing gone-aways to the ICO and how data is used both in the office and out in the field. Specifically, the Association detailed how its members currently validate data supplied by credit reference bureaux during their tracing activity. This includes comparing the information with other databases such as the voters’ roll and CCJ records, checking with neighbours at the debtor’s last known address, and confirming departure and new occupancy dates as well as contact telephone numbers and dates of birth.

 

The ICO confirmed that it does not question this process. It referred to the contractual terms of the tracing product in question, that required that further checks on identity were made because no assumption should be made that the matches produced were in fact the subject of the enquiry. So it would be wrong for a company to ‘assume’ any match supplied by a credit reference bureaux is correct and further reasonable checks should be carried out to validate its accuracy. The use of a ‘soft’ letter as part of the validation process was specifically raised. Again the ICO confirmed that a suitably worded soft letter could be sent providing reasonable checks had been carried out prior to the letter being despatched.

 

However, one of the key issues is what constitutes a ‘reasonable check’. The Data Protection Act requires members to process information fairly and lawfully but is not specific as to what such checks might be. The ICO will consider complaints on a case-by-case basis. The ICO was at pains, however, to assure the CSA that it did not favour those individuals who were clearly deliberately avoiding their financial responsibilities (as was sometimes assumed); that where a complaint had been made the ICO has a duty to assess members’ compliance with the Act and will decide on the ‘balance of probability’ whether fairness was exercised.

 

One example of what constituted a reasonable check was discussed. If there were 10 potential matches provided by the credit reference agency and eight of these showed a different date of birth, different first initial, different middle initial, then would it be reasonable to send a ‘soft letter’ to the remaining two to seek clarification of their identity? In general terms this would, although any other relevant information available would need to be taken into account.

 

The CSA also used the meeting to expand on the challenges faced by the debt collection industry by various websites giving bad advice to consumers on how to avoid paying their debts, and supplied copies of the recently launched CSA Debt Manifesto. The Association stressed how the lack of proper access to information about the borrower was a principal barrier to the efficient and accurate recovery of debt, and how this affected the incidence of ‘mis-traces’. The ICO were keen to discuss this further and were interested to learn more about the processes used in other European Countries. The next regular meeting is to be organised.

 

[sosumi]

Has anybody seen a recent news item about penalties for illegal access to personal data? I saw something, but can't remember where - £5000 fine plus a jail term? Wouldn't a 'Trace' on both our Equifax CRFs, by a Debt Collection Agency, when there never was any kind of dispute about our address... and conducted on the same day they received a request for a CCA (I have the signed Proof of Delivery), which they never mentioned to us??

 

That, to me, is unauthorised access, some kind of 'scouting trip' to see if they could get 'something else' on us?

 

We know it, I believe the Information Commissioner knows it, and we're finally (I hope) getting through to the Original Creditor (Bank). They used this DCA unnecessarily and according to OFT 664, are equally responsible for the DCA's dirty tactics.

 

We don't have much money, but would like to see this DCA in court, facing jail.

[sosumi]

The Debt Buyers and Sellers Group has some interesting News posted:

DBSG Website

Firstly, there is:

Long awaited review of Ofcom’s Statement of Policy on ‘Silent Calls’

Hmm. But there's more. Scroll down the page to the next item:

Ministry of Justice to carry out a Data Sharing Review

 

The Ministry of Justice is to carry out a review on the use and sharing of personal information in the public and private sectors. The review comes in the wake of the HM Revenue & Customs’ loss of 25 million people’s sensitive information.

 

The consultation will consider changes to the Data Protection Act 1998 and will present Government with options for changes to the law. Whilst some of the questions within the consultation may not be applicable, the Ministry is asking for any additional suggestions or observations we may have that may be relevant to the review. This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The Association will be responding to the review and would welcome views from members. The consultation can be found by following:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/data-sharing-review-consultation-paper.pdf

This is very interesting.

So, now seems like a good time for an open letter to the Information Commissioner.

 

I've started a draft, and will post here as I do it. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I will get things wrong, so please feel free to correct me, or make suggestions, anything...

I'm sick and tired of 'rogue debtor' misinformation used by DCAs to disguise their illegal practices. And the Credit Reference Agency involvement is far too unsettling to be ignored. My concentration's a bit scattered so please bear with me, it may take a few days

My feeling is that any personal data should be under tight restrictions, and held by the Government, not privately owned 'companies' whose main business seems to be selling information to other companies, whilst appearing to be a 'consumer's friend'.

I'm not good at anything legal, but will write from the heart. I trust you all enough to know you'll help me with anything I get stuck on

[sosumi]

I also agree

[sosumi]

I read an article in The Independent last week, mentioning that there are nearly 1,000 unregistered DCAs! We've already established it could cost less that £1000 to set up in 'business' as a DCA. What's to stop a new DCA from becoming a member of the Credit Services Association, or DSBG? In which case it would go back to one of the first posts on this thread, of Experian hosting a 'working group' - 'full access to SCOR' - remember?

 

Credit Reference Agencies hold personal data. Do they ring-fence this data? They also hold a lot more information, classed as 'marketing information', which they then 'sell'. They are companies, not government agencies.

[sosumi]

Read SP's post here

about the CRA's privacy policies.

A couple of posts further on, about Experian Autotrace, and the clause in their 'terms and conditions' saying they're not to be mentioned as a source. Why?

[sosumi]

From Experian's website, as statement of corporate responsibility:

"We interpret this as taking due regard for society's expectations of large companies. We believe these expectations to be for steadily higher standards of conduct and for taking increased responsibility for the direct and indirect effects of our operations."

 

...

[sosumi]

Posted by humbleman:

Originally Posted by sosumi

This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The voters roll, facilitates the process of voting, helps to prevent fraud (in the context of voting) and may also be used to select people jury duty. not for performing any commercial activity.

......................... ......................... ....

[sosumi]

and again, quoting from the DBSG:

The consultation will consider changes to the Data Protection Act 1998 and will present Government with options for changes to the law. Whilst some of the questions within the consultation may not be applicable, the Ministry is asking for any additional suggestions or observations we may have that may be relevant to the review. This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

[sosumi]

From Credit Today:

Electoral roll registration rises - 09/01/2008

 

Consumers are taking a greater interest in how their personal data is used, according to business information specialist Equifax.

 

In its annual update of electoral roll data it found a marginal increase in the number of people registered to vote from 2006 to 2007. The information is used by reference agencies to build up data, from which creditors make lending decisions. The number of people registering has generally been declining.

 

"We have seen the number of adults registered to vote increase by just under one per cent, with the London Boroughs showing some of the highest rises", said Neil Munroe, external affairs director. "One reason for this uplift could be the Electoral Administration Act, combined with local councils making greater efforts to encourage people to register to vote over the last couple of years. A rise in the immigrant population registering to vote could be another factor in the increase, with all Commonwealth and EU citizens eligible to vote in the UK."

 

However, the analysis also showed an increase in the proportion of adults choosing to opt out of the Edited Electoral Roll, which is available to commercial organisations for purposes other than credit checking. Year on year, this has increased by 3 per cent to 39.75 per cent, possibly reflecting a greater consumer interest in how personal data is used. However, Equifax is warning that consumer misperceptions about the Edited Electoral Roll could have an impact on their ability to make purchases online.

 

Munroe said: "There are some risks in opting out of the Edited Electoral Roll. This is especially the case if consumers are planning to do more of their shopping online, as it is used by many companies for identity verification purposes in order to combat identity fraud. If an individual’s name is not on the Edited Electoral Roll they may have trouble shopping online or completing important identity verification processes, such as for money laundering checks, which are required by many organisations today."

[sosumi]

I've been watching the documentary Elizabeth gave us the link to. Watched half of it before, will watch the rest tomorrow.

Think the banks and creditors have had us all over a barrel. That barrel's been very successful for them. They've made pots and pots of money. I think if the Government wants to sort out fraud, money laundering etc. they need to be looking at the ones who run the businesses that con and exploit. And the seedy companies who feed off them. Ack.

Thanks for the info about Watchdog - will also watch the repeat.

[sosumi]

Happy Birthday Ren!! xx

 

 

I've had a rough couple of days and only finished watching Maxed Out 10 minutes ago... :evil:

I also think it should be stickied.

[sosumi]

Been reading this on the BBC website:

BBC NEWS | England | Berkshire | Missing bank details found on M4

Missing bank details found on M4

 

The bank details of 200 people, relating to investments worth millions of pounds, have been found near a motorway slip road in Berkshire. The box of cheques and other sensitive information, belonging to Prudential investors, apparently fell from a DHL van, the firm said.

The documents were found by a driver on a roundabout close to Reading at junction 11 on the M4.

The box was returned and letters of assurance were sent to customers.

'Parted company'

The information was being transported in a van from the courier firm DHL.

A spokesperson for Prudential said: "The key thing is that none of those customers will suffer any financial loss as a result of this."

He added: "It was a delivery being made on our behalf to a secure storage facility in Essex.

"Basically the DHL van and the box parted company at some stage during that journey."

A DHL spokesperson said: "We can confirm that a parcel went missing during a delivery on 7 January due to driver error.

"We take incidents of this nature extremely seriously, a thorough investigation is underway.

"The driver responsible has been suspended pending a full review of the incident," he added.

 

[sosumi]

Sosumi did you note that when the council get details ready for the companies that requested them the council puts the personal data onto a hard disc and it is post to them!!!! Absolutely no respect for peoples personal data whatsoever.

 

Big business, no respect for peoples personal data, we are just fodder for the big business to make money.

 

I wonder which courier they use? Wouldn't be the one in the post above, would it?

[sosumi]

We're just doing the same Cashins. For the Natwest Accounts we're using this address:

 

The Data Controller

Natwest Bank PLC

135 Bishopsgate

London

EC2M 3UR

 

Don't know about RBS. This is the main Natwest address I think, and we've enclosed our complaint, plus CCA request, plus SAR (and respective fees) on the same account all in the one letter. SEnding it Special Delivery (Signed For).

[sosumi]

200 JOBS TO GO AT EXPERIAN

 

(Nottingham Evening Post)

AT least 200 jobs are to go at Nottingham business information group Experian.

 

The company, which employs 2,400 in the city, said the jobs would be lost from the IT section of its information solutions division. The division writes programmes for Experian's product development programme, but this is now being transferred to Perot Systems in Bangalore in India.

 

The job losses are the most significant since the company was founded in Nottingham more than 25 years ago, and are aimed at saving £40m a year. A spokesman said it was seeking voluntary redundancies, but compulsory job losses were not ruled out. Staff will receive pay in lieu of notice plus statutory redundancy pay.

 

Experian also announced a voluntary redundancy programme for senior managers.

 

The company, which blamed the jobs losses partly on the credit crunch hitting banks, said the restructuring would help it develop new products more quickly.

 

Chief financial officer Paul Brooks said Nottingham will remain its most important centre. He said: "We are investing and although we are looking to make the business more efficient, we are also continuing to invest for future growth. All areas of the business are being affected by the credit crunch. We need to make sure our cost base is efficient, particularly in more challenging times."

 

* For the full story: See today's Post late edition

Also see the comments that people are leaving.

[sosumi]

There are a lot of angry people commenting on the Evening Post article.

Here's a couple:

I worked for Experian for over 8 years and left of my own accord earlier this year because it was obvious there was going to be redundancies (there have been over 1,000 in the last 2 years). Experian formerly CCN was origanally owned by an American Co. before GUS took them on board and they did very well but now they are again owned by an American Co. it has taken less than 18months for them to ruin it. By the way this is not the only department to have been outsourced, rumour has it the next to go is the Technical side.ex Experian employee, Derbyshire

 

Experian hold highly sensitive personal and confidential financial data on millions people in Britain. Isn't this subject to EU laws? Are Experian supposed to enable Indian off-shore resources to access this confidential data? What about the data protection act? How can we be confident that Experian can protect our data? (especially as HMRC have failed to do so).David, nottingham