Police getting "clued-up" at long last ?

[The Watcher]

I urge everyone to read thoroughly (and take a copy of) this statement from Devon / Cornwall Police and keep it handy !

 

http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/showpdf.cfm?pdfname=CJU_D222.pdf

[The Watcher]

very interesting reading

worth copying to everyones Chief Constable asking for similar guidelines to be publicly issued...?

 

I am a little concerned with one aspect ... they do not appear to realise that bailiffs collection for Council Tax need to be Certificated?

 

I have contacted Devon and Cornwall Police and pointed out this error - I will let you know when I get a response.

 

It would be worth getting ALL police forces to adopt similar "advice" - if only for the benefit of their own officers (and as this has been produced by a police force already, they would be more willing to accept it).

[The Watcher]

Well researched Watcher.

THis answers many questions posters are asking. In particular, that a bailiff might be arrested for breach of the peace depending on how he/she is conducting him/herself, what ID and documentary evidence they can show and what documentary authority they have.

It's excellent. Given that it's Drakes they're dealing with it's hardly surprising they're so concerned.

 

Yes, thanks ... it may also start to get the police to look at the situation in a slightly different light - especially when they realise that a FRAUD is being committed by anyone claiming to be able to levy but not having the relevant certification?

[The Watcher]

i have sent a copy to the police sargeant at the abergele north wales branch asking will he adopt a simmallar response well done watcher

 

Please let us know how you get on.

Let's see if we can get ALL forces to at least educate their officers as to the law !

 

If we are able to show them what the law really is (at the time that it matters) they will be less inclined to simply "accept" whatever a bailiff tells them.

 

At present, through ignorance, the police are often unwittingly an accessory to a crime, where they actually "assist" a bailiff even though he may not be Certificated and therefor acting unlawfully.

[The Watcher]

I wonder what the two "dates" mean? One is Jan 2007 (Policy Version date) - the other Jan 2008 (Review date).

 

Does it perhaps mean that this has been put forward for consultation and they will make a final decision in Jan 2008?

 

One thing is for certain - we CANNOT have the law interpretted differently in one county to the rest of the UK.

 

I'll let you know whan I get a reply from Devon & Cornwall police.

 

Your point (4.7) is covered by 4.6.d - is it not?

 

Re 4.9 - "suggested times for levying" - as you do not have to admit the bailiff, you can simply send them away until a "reasonable" time. Sane people would not consider 6am (or after dark) as being a "reasonable time" to open your door to a stranger. Calls made at such times are intentionally made to catch the debtor in their nightclothes and make them feel even more vulnerable.

[The Watcher]

We'll have to see ... but it IS (apparently) what Devon & Cornwall police will use as their guideance, so it's "the law" as far as "the law" is concerned !

 

I think any Court would be very sympathetic, if someone had relied on (and followed) official police guidance.

 

As for not removing or hiding goods - I've read many times that this IS allowed (if goods have not already been seized).

[The Watcher]

You are not allowed to remove or hide goods.

 

WHAT IF I HIDE THINGS OR GIVE THEM AWAY?

If the bailiffs haven't yet been in, you can hide things or take them somewhere else.

 

Taken from National Debtline - National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

 

also, from the same link as above -

BAILIFFS PROCEDURES

 

If the bailiffs are distraining for Poll Tax or Council Tax there are certain procedures that they have to follow.

They must have with them:

• written authorisation from the council for them to call. They should show you this if you ask.

>>

 

Exactly - is that not exactly what this guidance information is for?

 

>>

 

Possibly, but you DON'T have to let them in or deal with them, do you? It would be a very foolish person who merely opened-up to anyone who happened to claim that they were a bailiff and had a warrant (but didn't have it with them)!

[The Watcher]

I sent a request to my local Constabulary - linking to the above - and asked them if they had any plans to issue similar advise.

 

Can anyone guess what the answer was?

[The Watcher]

hmm let me guess...... no !!!

 

10 points to you, B.A.Ts !

 

If you got six policemen in a room and asked them all to explain bailiff law, I doubt one would get it right.

 

Thats why they tend to avoid the subject (fear of acting wrongly) and hide behind the "its a civil matter" banter.