Banks Suspend Bank Charges

[The Phantom]

Check out zootscoots useful post

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/107588-oft-test-case-what.html

 

We will have to await the outcome, but who says the banks would win ? What if they loose ?

[The Phantom]

I wouldn't think so, that their status should have an impact on a verdict.

What could happen though is that even if they loose, retrospective claims could be limited by the court, i.e. they don't have to pay everything back retrospectively to limit the impact, but can't charge in future.

What about that scenario ?

[The Phantom]

Well, it would be interesting to see the reasoning of the court / judge then.

The law we quote / rely on in our claims is quite clear, so any victory for the banks would be most interesting.

It would in that case be prudent to leave the country, as the implications of what you are suggesting are most troubling.

Either law applies or it doesn't. It can't apply for just some and not others.

But then again I am not English and not used to these things. Where I come from there are no such things are bank penalty charges, you just pay different amounts for the type of current account that suits your needs.

[The Phantom]

Rule No 1: Common sense does not apply.

[The Phantom]

Rather than bribing a judge, they could just change the law to suit if they wanted.

At least that would be legal.

To be honest I don't think the result will be a clear you loose - you win scenario. The test case imho was a gentlemen's agreement between the relevant bodies OFT,FSA, FSO etc to cut their workload and clear this issue once and for all.

I bet there will be a further gentlemen's agreement upon judgement, if the bank's can't win on legal terms (because the law is quite clear) there will be a limitations clause to prevent backdated claims and from that point banks will drop penalty charges but will start to charge for current accounts and services associated with them individually (cheques, maybe direct debits, standing orders and what have you), so they have lost but can't loose financially. I could see all that already being agreed between these bodies without actually having to bribe any judges, which is an idea I strongly object to as this would indicate or suggest Italian Mafia like conditions, and I sincerely hope this would not be the case in the UK.:-?

[The Phantom]

If you read zootscoots sticky it is advisable to continue with your claim as normal, but the case may be stayed by your court pending the outcome of the test case.

I think the test case had to happen at some point just to clarify the legalities and take the enormous pressure off the small claims courts and other bodies.

The CAG was looking for donations to fund a test case themselves anyway

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=89&a=102

(check note under Bankfodders avatar)

So I am confident there is a good chance the banks would/will loose on the legal issue, BUT I also believe there will be a limitation clause regarding backdated claims AND bank's will no doubt start to charge for current accounts and associated services if they cannot levy penalty charges anymore.

[The Phantom]

what is the answer to all this?????? there is a great deal of speculation flying around and nobody can be sure what the outcome will be, one thing I do now is that if we do not get a favourable response then we should take to the streets in our millions and force this god forsaken country to listen, how long is it going to be before we end up with a civil war on our hands.... we can not continue in this opressed regime... this country is being run by large institutions.... it is all about money... I have read recently that illegal immigrants leave the country get a £3500 windfall to set up a business back home.... they use the money to return and then ask for another £3500.... I know families who have lived here all their lives that only get that to live on for one whole year.... I have also heard how true I dont know that migrant workers claim child tax credits over here for children they dont have back home... and because our system is so old and there is no investigations possible they get away with it...... why do I feel a victim ????? I have worked all my adult life as have many people I know and unless you are one of the very few on decent wages your standard of living is ridiculously low.....

 

any ideas would be greatly appreciated..............

 

I think migrants and immigrants are too often used as scapegoats for everything that goes wrong in this country. I am not English and have moved here from the continent in the early 90s as I am married here. My OH is English. I am more and more shocked about how xenophobic England has become. I have been verbally attacked myself in a petrol station in quite a shocking manner, so I know what I am talking about. What you seem to forget is that everybody is a foreigner - almost everywhere in the world !

I am sure that some people abuse the system, but I am equally sure that it is not limited to migrants and immigrants ! I am sure there are a lot of English people who are claiming benefits when they shouldn't.

In my country (member state of the EU) we had cases of ENGLISH people coming in, reporting to the immigration services and applying for Political Asylum, as under our laws every request has to be investigated and all people requesting asylum have to be put up at taxpayer's expense until their request has been decided which due to the case load could take up to 1 year. So we had English people lodging for free for at least a year whilst their fake request for political asylum had to be investigated by the authorities.

So you need to remember that there are good and bad everywhere. Needless to say the freeloaders were denied asylum and sent back to the UK, probably claiming benefits here now or they have tried Switzerland. Who knows, these are also people you are supporting through your taxes.

Sadly it is only the immigrants that get a mention in the tabloids.8)

[The Phantom]

true, but can be scary if you happen to meet these people face to face when all you are trying to do is pay for your petrol :o

[The Phantom]

Britian is no more xenophobic than any other country and a lot less than most.

I must differ. It is very xenophobic much more than other countries, you need to be at the receiving end though to appreciate how much.

 

Newcomers from fellow EU countries have a legal right to come and live here and arent classed as immigrants.

That would be me, but have been told in no uncertain terms by some Brits how unwelcome I still am and where I should go (won't quote them) (married here, bring up kids, work and pay taxes...hmmm they didn't ask about that though just told me still not welcome as not a true Brit. Maybe because I don't wear T-Shirts with the Union Jack on it or something - not sure) :?

 

Asylum seekers are welcome if they are genuine, however as asylum treaties state that one must claim asylum in the first safe country they come to.

 

It is clear that those who have travelled half way round the world to come here have passed through many safe countries and have made a conscious choice to head for Britain as a destination of choice.

You ever wondered why they wish to settle here and not in the Netherlands for example ? Which is the most common language in the world ? Dutch ? Swedish ? Greek ? Icelandic ? Finnish ? No - I think there may a possible key answer. Most people are more likely to speak basic English than any other language from a so called safe country. If they are genuine they will try to go where it is easiest to get work and establish themselves- that's easier if you can communicate as all European countries will offer the same basic immigration rights and privileges. England is by no means a softer spot than for example the Netherlands or Sweden.

This makes those who do this simply illegal economic migrants who are abusing the asylum system.

Most of these people do not come to abuse anything or steal some butter off someones cucumber sandwich, they simply want a better life and they are told this is where to have a better life. I think it is very hard to put yourself into the shoes of someone who has sold everything for a chance to travel in a cargo container with 20 or more others halfway around the globe to a strange country hoping for a better life

 

Its not a race issue. Playing the race card devalues REAL race issues and undermines the case for those genuinely in need of our protection.

No, it is most certainly not a race issue at all. I am as white as a true British cucumber sandwich but my accent / language still (even after almost 15 years living here) gives me away which was enough to be subjected to a xenophobic attack in a petrol station in good old England.

Please believe me if I say to you : you need to be at the receiving end of this behaviour to appreciate the severity of the current situation

[The Phantom]

and if that is the case then as someone has previously asked - why are banks allowed to keep taking charges until this is sorted?

 

Not trying to look as if I am siding with the banks - which I am not, but:

I think they can continue charging as they say the charges are fair and justified and legal. The test case will decide if that's true or not, so they can/will continue until told otherwise as they have objected to voluntary compliance.

 

Also, keep this in mind: if they did suspend all charges pending the outcome of the test case and they then WIN the test case, would we not all get a bill for suspended unpaid charges going back the duration of the test case ? Just as the bank's may have to fork out past charges if they loose ? Might be better for the consumer this way, especially as we do not know the outcome of the test case. I'd rather have a backdated pay-out than a backdated bill.

But that's just me.?

Well, that's how I look at it to comfort myself

[The Phantom]

1)The asylum system is there for people in fear of persecution in their own country, it isnt a means for people to get a better life somewhere else. To use it as such, is to abuse the generosity of the country which gives asylum.

True - tell that the bunch of English people requesting political asylum in a EU member state 'for a laugh' in order to live on that countries' benefit system for a year before being returned to the UK. I think that is a lot worse than some poor human beings from a third world country travelling around the globe in a cargo container looking for a better life. With my taxes I'd rather support those destitute and desperate enough to do that than a bunch of lazyholics who no doubt are still claiming benefits (or requesting political asylum ?) to this date somewhere in Europe and hold a British passport.

 

2)Until 1997, failed asylum seekers were sent back to the last safe country they had passed through on their way here, usually France or the Netherlands (if they would have them)

We had to send the false English asylum seekers all the way back to the UK, nobody else on the way would have them off us !!! We didn't bother to ask in the Netherlands or France on the way through mind you...maybe we should have just offloaded them there without asking.

3) I'm sorry you have been treated badly simply because of your accent by some idiots in some places. If I went to live in the Netherlands, Im sure I would find some idiots who would treat me badly simply because Im English. I live in Northern Ireland, Ive had some unpleasant moments with idiots here, over the last 20 years.

 

Small minded people are everywhere, not just England.

True - but again, if it is not you who is directly and personally affected it is difficult to put yourself into those peoples shoes who are. I honestly believe based on own experience that England is sliding. There is increased xenophobia and it is sadly fired up by the tabloids here (anti Europe, anti Euro, anti everything that is not British really and if it's apples from New Zealand). Our daughter's school found it necessary to introduce cultural diversity themes and subjects (not as part of the curriculum) to show pupils how all countries interlink, how different cultures live and work together etc to combat certain xenophobic tendencies and incidents amongst some pupils, some as young as Key Stage 1 ! These youngsters don't get their ideas from reading Puddle Lane books, they get these silly ideas from their parents. It is frightening.