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    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Kay against Alliance & Leicester***WON** POST OFT


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My Goodness I didnt realise there were so many of us out there battling against the big boys!

I started claims against Halifax and A&L in February using advise from Money expert.com. My account with Halifax is still current and they paid me £576 within 3 weeks.

But Alliance is really tough. I actually closed my account with them in Spring of 2006, because of their excessive default charges.

Since claiming my money back they have been awful, completely ignoring my time-limits etc. I wont go into it all here, as it would take up too much space. But briefly,the total charges on my account over 6 years was £2023. plus int £409.74. However there were some refunds on the account totalling £266. So I took these off and claimed £1757 plus £409.74 interest.

They refused but eventually they offered £659. I refused and threatened court action and when I didnt recieve a response I started the court action with Money Claim online. However because I was so angry, I decided the claim the full charges of £2023 (ignoring the refunds). Then recieved a cheque from A&L for £779.(to include the court fee) As court action had already been taken I didnt bother to write back to them. I have now had their 6 page defence from Wragges and the court.

Last week the court wrote with a demand for another £100 because my claim is over £1500. (why didnt they tell me this is the first place?) Reluctantly this has gone off to the courts and I now have a date set for August 16th.

I havent done anything since and am not sure what to do. I see people talking about AQs and Bundles, and have no idea what these mean.

Can someone help me out. I am really scared that I did the wrong thing by ignoring the refunds on the account.

Sometimes I wish I'd never started this with all the stress it has caused.

Regards Kay.

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Thank you sooo much for your message, I really appreciated your advise.

The bundle thing looks so complicated, but I think I can put it together with the help of bundle for dummies.

I dont really understand what type of hearing it is, allocation or final?? Only that it says that "the Judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaire filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track" and yes, it says the same as yours, that "each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely etc etc..." Perhaps I shall call them tomorrow.

I guess I am feeling guilty that I am claiming for all the charges and didnt mention the refunds that appeared on the statements. The bank havent mentioned this, as all their correspondance has all been standard letters, not personal at all. But if I alter the amount claimed now, it might make things worse.

OOOeerr

Thanks again

Kay

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Thankyou again. I have read through loads of threads, and am quite boggled by it all. Since sending the extra £100 I havent done anything, not even replied to Wraggs, as I didnt think I needed to, but maybe I should respond to their Defence Note No.10 where they say I have failed to particularise the claim.

I will pm you (private message?) It would be great to see your "bundle". (Sounds naughty doesnt it?)

Regards

Kay

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all of you out there.

I must admit I have done nothing but worry. and I mean NOTHING. My court date is August 16th so have been looking through the forum for advise on bundles etc. Just started getting it together today and low and behold Wragges have written upping their offer from £779 incl Ct cost, to £1011.50 plus court cost of £120.

I am now in a delema. Considering all the stress this has put me through this last year, should I carry on? Or considering I am claiming a little more than I should have (Out of a claim for £2023 of which I left out the £266 refunds) Do I accept???

Its all so complicated. I get so confused even looking through this forum!

HELP.

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O.K. I've gone and got a cuppa with a large brandy in it.

Dated 12 July 2007

"Notice of Allocation to the small claims Track (Hearing)

District Jusge... has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

The hearing of the claim will take place at 14.00 on 16 Aug 2007........

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later that 14 dayss before the hearing.

The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

Dtae 03 July 2007"

Today Wrages letter: Without Prejudice.

"We are instructed to make the following offer to you in full and final settlement of your claim against our client:

1.Our client will pay the sume of £1011.50 in respect of your claim

2. Our client wil pay your court fee of £120.

3. Payment will be made to you with 28 days of your acceptance of this offer,

4. This offer is made on the basis that you accept our clients terms and conditions of your account previously notified to you and that charges will be appleid in accordance with their current charging policy.

If you wish to accept this offer please contact the writer on the number below."

My concern is that if I hold on to the bitter end, I may end up with nothing, as like I said before, the total I am claiming through the court is more than I originally claimed with A+L , because through anger at their treatment of me, I ignored the refunds to the account. Could it be thrown out because of this?

Kay.

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On advise from my partner I have today faxed Wragges a letter, stating that I am prepared to waive the interest charged, if they will settle by noon on Monday. If they dont reply I still have time to send in my bundle and go for the full amount.

My fingers are crossed. Cant wait till its all over.

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Thanks Alice. Wonderful words of support. I just hope I've done the right thing with my fax. I am waiting eagerly to see the outcome of the Test Case that is currently in the news.

Kay x

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This site has boggled me completely. Once you go into different threads and onto replies, checking out where people are up to, all the legal jargon etc...you forget what you actually started out to do!

But I have to say, it all makes fantastic reading..so much info.. so much immotion, happy-sad-scared-angry.. and in the end we all going through the same fight, whichever way we look at it.

Its amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With this new Test Case started, we are all wondering where it will leave us. There will be a lot going on this week, and for those of us almost at an end, it will be nerve wracking.

I have given Wragges until noon tomorrow to come up with my money, less interest, just to put an end to it all. I wait with baited breath.

Love and luck to all you wonderful people.

K X

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Well, I rang Wragges today to ask why they hadnt responded to my fax and was told the guy I sent it to is away all day. She hadnt even seen my fax, but said that "In light of the Test Case, they are not making or receiving any offers until the outcome of the case... Your case will probably be put on hold"

I didnt crumble, I spent all afternoon putting together the bundle which is going off tomorrow recorded delivery. I am going to a family funeral up north tomorrow so had to do it today.

Trying to find the relevant stuff was very stressfull to say the least, added to the fact my computer ink gave out just as the last of my copy paper ran out!!!

Its so not fair that we ordinary people have to do all this stuff, why cant it be simple? It seems ridiculous to quote cases that I dont understand and appear have no relevance to me.

Anyway its done now, pages numbered, indexed, the lot! And boy, do I feel relieved!

All this may be to no avail if the case is put on hold as Wragges have threatened. But I know in my heart, I had to battle on, and just prey it will be fruitful in the end.

I so need the money.

It has been a great learning curve. Although a born worrier, I know I must do what is right and not get so emotionally involved. Its only money eh?

(I think I need councilling)

Kay X

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Hi all,

I have been away at a funeral and now my best friend has just had a "mild stroke". Makes you realise how life is so precious, and all this stress pales into insignificence. I read all the posts, and all of us have so much going on in our lives besides all this.

I have been holding off ringing the courts after sending my bundle in, but I did it today. They said received my documents last Wednesday and all cases "are going ahead as planned". I asked if they had received the defences bundle as Friday was the 14days before court, and they hadnt, but said it may be due to the post. She told me to call back later in the week.

If they havent sent in their bundle, do I win by default??

Oh I so do hope so.

However now I am not as bothered as I was.

Love KX

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Hi all,

I rang the court today and was told that they havent recieved anything from Wraggs. So they've missed the deadline! Horray!! BUT they "may still put in a request for a 'stay'. So she advised me to do nothing until next Wednesday, the day before the court case, when I should call to see if it has been stayed, saving me the trip to Redditch.

Thats not fair is it???

Love KX

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Received "standard" letter from A+L today.

 

I have scanned it but this system wont let me insert it. However it basically is telling me (us) that "they have asked the courts and FOS not to proceed with any other case they are hearing until the test case is resolved"....and to "retain your bank records as this will make it easier for us to support your complaint on resolution of the test case. Once legal proceedings finish, we will resolve your complaint as quickly as possible applying the test case principles, which may result in a different outcome to the one communucated to you in our final response." They enclose Frequently Asked questions paper about the 'test case' on charges for unauthorised overdrafts.

 

On Mimis' wonderful advise I have already submitted a "Request for Judgment" form, and just hope to God that the court will look favourably upon this request "especially as the defendants have ignored the Judges directions" i.e. not submitting their bundle on time.

Having said that, I must admit I dont exactly know what they were supposed to submit, is it the same as my bundle?, with explanations of how they came to charge me all this money?

 

I am really not good with all this legal jargon, but have gone about this claim with the help of money-expert and CAG. and I cannot thank you all enough for all the support you have given me. I know we are all in the same boat, but for some it has paid off, others are still left hanging in the balance. I know I am so very close but realise I may be just a tad too late.

Court date Thurs Aug 16th 14.00hrs.

Bye for now.

Love KX:???:

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Jan you're brilliant!

I am half expecting a letter from the court tomorrow to stay my case, but hope my letter will make them sympathetic.

Thankyou so much for the advise, I'll be ready for them no matter what!

Really appreciate your time in sharing all your knowledge with me and others.

Its so good we are all watching out for each other.

Love KX

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:eek: Just got a call from a nice lady from Redditch county court.

They have just recieved A+L's application for stays on all their cases. However, the judge will make his discision at the hearing. So I have to attend as normal.

Oooeeer!!! :!:

Nerve wracking or what??!!! I didnt think it would come to this.

Is my court hearing going to be about ME and my CLAIM or will it be just about whether to Stay or not to Stay? .........This is the question.:?:

Love (A very anxious) KayX

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:( Notice of Hearing of Application. Recieved this morning from the court.

"The hearing of the defendants application for Claim to Be Steayed Generall (see copy attached) will take place at 13.00 on the 16 August 2007 at Redditch County Court...

Cases are listed in accordance with local hearing arrangementts determined by the Judiciary and implemented by court staff. Every effort is made to ensure that hearings start either at the time specified or as soon as possible thereafter. However, listing practices or other factors may mean that delay is unavoidable. Furthermore, in some instances a case may be released to another judge, possibly at a different court. Please contact the court for further information on the listing arrangements that may apply to your hearing."

The attached Application Notice from Wroage & Co is a form which on the question of: How do you wish to have your application dealt with, they have marked an X beside "without a hearing".

Part A says " We intend to apply for an order that a) This claim is stayed generlly and b) That all claims issued against A+L in this court, where the claimant is seeking to recover what the claimant alleges are unauthorised bank charges, are stayed generally.

because

A test case is being brought in the High Court by various banks and the OFT to seek to resolve the uncertainties concerning the level, fairness and lawfulness of unauthorised bank charges. It would be appropriate to stay this and all other cases in this Court invoiving the Defendant pending a final resolution of the test case.

Part B

We wish to rely on: and they have crossed the box that says "evidence in Part C in support of my application.

Part C

We wish to relay on the following evidence in support of this application - See witness Statement attached.

Should I go on quoting the Draft Oder and Witness statement of Susan Martina Land of Wragg & Co LLP which is attached?

I am sending off the letter objecting to a stay, by special delivery today.

What more can I do?

I feel absolutely gutted that they are using my hearing as an application to stay all cases.

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:) THANKYOU SOOO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I really needed that!

Squarebob, you are a strange one, but in the end you are really on the ball!! Yes you have have made me feel so much better. And Jan, again I cant thank you enough for the info.

I am scared of going to court and maybe having to actually SPEAK up. Aaaagh. Everthing in writing up to now, but will I just freeze like a frightened rabbit in the headlights???????

Its so important what happens, to me and others after me.

Lots of Love

Kayxxxxxxxxx

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I posted this letter today special delivery, based on the template you mentioned. Hope it does the trick.

Thankyou!!

Claim Number:xxxxxx

In the Redditch County Court

 

Between:

 

Kay Whittaker

Claimant

-and-

Alliance and Leicester PLC

Defendant

 

 

I have today ( the day before my hearing ) received an application for stay on my case from the defendant. This last minute plea to stop my case from going ahead comes after the defendant has already offered part settlement to my claim.

I strongly object to the proposed order of a stay in respect of the claim detailed above upon the following grounds;

Human rights

It would infringe my rights under the European Convention on Human Rights directly and as enacted in the Human Rights Act 1998.

2 Art.6 1. Of the Convention provides that, in the determination of their civil rights everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time.

Alliance and Leicester Plc are not involved with the High Court Test Case, however, the 8 banks that are, have recently published identical statements on their websites informing customers that they expect the test case to last for over a year. Given the importance of the issues there will almost inevitably be an appeal from a first instance decision and any stay could endure for two years or even more.

It is thus submitted that the period of any proposed stay cannot be accurately predicted and would therefore in effect be indeterminate.

This is plainly not a reasonable time within which to resolve the vast majority of claims before the Courts, which like mine are small claims.

This case will not be expeditiously dealt with if delayed for up to 2 years. Alliance and Leicester have had years to invite the OFT to issue their case against them. It is very rare when they bother to argue any defence. In other words, they treat cases like mine as another commercial decision. They have never sought to see a case through, take it to appeal if necessary and seek to establish certainty over the principles they assert are so crucial now, they necessitate a stay of all claims.

Many hundreds of cases have gone through the Courts already, arguing the same points that are set out as preliminary issues in the OFT case. I should not be deprived of the same opportunity that all those other Claimants had, simply because Alliance and Leicester have elected to take this route vis a vis the OFT.

It is submitted that the ordering of a stay as proposed is not reasonable.

The Overriding Objective requires that my case is allowed to proceed speedily so that a just settlement may be obtained by the parties to this case. Dealing with cases justly includes ensuring that this case is dealt with expeditiously and fairly and in a way that is proportionate to the amount of money involved.

It is submitted that the imposition of an indeterminate stay in a small claims track case involving a relatively small sum, at such an advanced stage in proceedings, is not just, nor is it expeditious, nor is it fair on a claimant who has outlaid sums by way of court fees in pursuit of a legitimate right to seek a remedy.

 

Balance of convenience.

In my case, I claim £2,434.74 in charges and interest unlawfully levied by the Alliance and Leicester Plc. This is a large sum for me but a negligible sum for the Defendant. It is of no consequence to the Bank that I may be deprived of an opportunity to resolve my dispute for a further year to two years, as they already have my money and in any event they are under no financial pressure to resolve the case fairly and speedily. I on the other hand am extremely anxious to have my case determined as speedily as fairness permits and the comparatively low amount of money involved, so far as the Bank is concerned, does not warrant the resolution of the dispute being delayed further.

It is submitted that a stay may potentially mean great difficulty for me and yet be insignificant for the defendant bank. In fact a stay is supportive of the banks litigation strategy which is to frustrate justice by repeatedly taking the claimant to the door of the court, and then to settle the claim.

 

The Status Quo

The stay does not maintain the status quo. As submitted above, a stay favours the bank by preventing the claimant’s pursuit of its legitimate remedy without placing any restriction upon the banks activities which I submit are unlawful and retaliatory.

 

Furthermore, as submitted above the present case concerns a relatively small sum and is at a late stage in proceedings, and therefore I submit that to impose an indeterminate stay is unnecessary, inappropriate, not in the interests of justice and further, is detrimental to my rights in a way which is unfair and inequitable.

 

Expense would be saved by allowing my case to proceed in the normal way.

I, the Claimant, believe all facts stated to be true.

Signed:

Dated:

 

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Yes, still up and worrying. (but thats my nature)

Just had a thought.

Wragges have attached loads of copies with their witness statement, of other cases from around the country, that have been stayed.

Is there anywhere I can find counter information on cases that have gone ahead (and been won) since the OFT announcement???

Love K X

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:D :o :D

 

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As soon as I arrived at court (1/2 hour before time) The usher told me the judge was in a "foul mood". Then a lady introduced herself as the "agent" for Wragge & Co. They want to SETTLE! For £2023. (without interest) - and that they would send the cheque within 28 days.

 

A delemma or what?! I was confident of a win, I had done all the work, but this was about Staying the case.

 

So after 10 minutes of diliberation with my partner, I said yes, if they would also pay back the court fees/allocation fees and £100 for my time, within 14 days. She went away to call Wragges and came back one minute before we were due in court and said they would settle for

£ 2,243 ( In all just £200 less than I was claiming anyway!!!!!) I reluctanly agreed - Acting ofcourse!!

 

As soon as I got out into the fresh air, I cried with happiness and relief!!!

 

A Massive thank you to this site, especially to Jansus, Mimi, Alice, Squarebob and everybody else that gave me the courage to carry on!!!!

:) :) :)

I still cant believe they settled so far down track. They must have had a good chance of staying the case.. but didnt even try in the end.

Hope this gives confidence to all others who like me, were expecting months and months of waiting, until after the Test Case.

LOVE KAY XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!

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