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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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HELP NEEDED A.S.A.P plz


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Hi Everyone,

I have question to anyone who can answer. I applied to the Abbey for the return of over £5k and the case was put on hold. Low and behold in January they took away a £500 overdraft facility we have and have now requested this back at £100 per month. I argued with them and said well if they want their £500 I want the return of over £5k. I said as my case was put on hold and they were not prepared to give me what was due and as the account is in dispute they have no power to request £500 whether it is paid in a lump sum or monthly payments. They argued and said they have and have been taking payments of £100 per month. We have paid £100 off this so far and it is killing us each month what with never ending out goings each month increasing. Is there any legal argument I can point out to them that will prevent them from taking this money each month pending the outcome of the "test case"?

Thanks for your help

Ladidi

P.S. one more thing..I for got to ask.. I have PPI in which I would also like to claim for loans in which we were told we could have but PPI had to be taken out with the loan and also fees and charges which have been applied to our mortgage which I would also like to claim, but due to the stress of dealing with the bank charge claim and then getting everything going and then being told it will be put on hold due to the "test case" I dont have the energy to go through it all again with these companies and was thinking og hiring someone to do it all on my behalf. They have quoted me £180 for 3 PPI claims and for the fees on my mortgage and 2nd charge. Does anyone recommend this or company who they think would be ideal to do this for you? This company that cold called me and said they would just request £180 and all monies claimed would be paid with no deductions from this. Does anyone have an opinion? Thanks

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Ladidi

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the mortgage fees are a tricky one to get back cos if u win they could deciede they want there money back and yo no mortgage and no one will take u on i was going to do this but got cold feet with it as was worried what theyd do would be intersted if this has changed in last year and if anyone has had the bottle to go further with this cos ive got alot of mortgage charges xxkia

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Hmm you and me both Kia, I thought buying a house would be the best acheivement ever. tunrs out it is a complete nightmare that never ends unless you come into money and can pay it all off!!! I dont mind paying whatever it is due for my paying late which is their costs incurred same as bank charges but I do mind when they slap on £50 a time!!!!

I have been told by one these cold calling companies that you can claim it back, but well as they have cold called me, they will tell me anything to get me to sign up with them and pay them £180 and take forever and a day to deal with it all!! Plus with what you said, if the mortgage companies got funny and decided to say right you owe us this much and we want it!!!

Gawd where those d*mn lucky lotto balls when you need them??? LOL

Good to her from you Kia, How are you these days? and I wish the Judge would hurry up and make his decision too cos I need my money back ASAP!!!!!!!!

Ladidi

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yep me too my bank charges keep going up and up thought wed have heard by now but nothing im good better than ive been in along time life is looking up good to hear from u too just need me money back to finish things off with the abbey as for mortgage i did think about going to a brief with this one cos it was more complicated so felt it justfied there fees and if they got it back all the better but no gurantees if u go for it i might too but after the bank charges my brain can only cope with one thing at a time dont know about u and apparently theres no time limit like with bank charges so can take our time on them xxkia

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I have spoken to my husband about reclaiming the monies claimed byt he mortgage companies in relation to late payments and non DD payments and he said if we can find a reputable company we are going to let them deal with it and also claim for all the PPI`s we have been mis sold on previous loans we were forced to take out. SO in the mean time I`m on the look out for a good company who can deal with all too boot. I found one but tehre was no contact tel number for them so I`m dubious to it, they said they would take 18% of the total payout plus VAT and the minimum would be £150 plus VAT..It was NO WIN NO FEE as well. But as there is no contact number for them I dont wanna give all my dets to someone I cant contact or discuss things with first. Wonder if anyone on here has had dealings with any of these types of companies and can recommend one?

Ladidi

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yeah i wonder too would be interested to know cos i need every penny at the mo got alot going on as well all have but can do without charges from mortgage people plus i got two mortgage companies to claim off what a tangled mess eh but the first one should be easier cos they cant reclaim that money the second being our friends the abbey whos idea was it to go with them then :mad:think it might have been mines oppss xxkia

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Well if anyone can put forward a good and reputable company that will be willing to take on the reclaim of fees etc for mortgages and PPI's as well previous credit card charges etc, we would be willing to give them our details and allow them to deal with it all. Less stress and more gain would be great for me I say ;)

 

I have seen the forum on mortgages etc. But to be honest with all the stress of the bank charges, me and my husband would rather allow someone who was reputable deal with our claim as long as they are honest and reliable and can inform us what they charge from day one and have contact telephone numbers and addresses etc so we know who we are dealing with.

Ladidi

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yeah ill second that so if anyone can suggest someone well go for it i think espically as the bank stuff is taking time could do with the money both of us could xxkia:)

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Good Evening all,

 

I thought I would take the trouble of sharing some information with you about what I have spent this past week doing with the "Abbey".

 

As you all know I am claiming my bank charges back through the courts and like the rest of you this has been placed on hold while we wait for the Judge to come back with is decision and findings based on what has been said and given in cout.

 

Anyway, during the process of me claiming back my bank charges which began in March 2007 myself and my husband had a £500 overdraft with Abbey. As everything was on hold and there was nothing we could do we carried on having some money paid into this account to keep the account open and active so we can get our refund when due smoothly.

 

In December 2007 they decided to take away the overdraft leaving us with a £500 debt owed. I argued they could not do this, they argued they could stating it is their money and they want it returned. In the end I spoke to a nice lady in abbey complaints who knew what I was talking about and dealt with everything or so I thought.

 

Come January 2007 the overdraft facility was removed and we was now in debt for £500 and the abbey was singing at the top of their voices to get their money back. I argued you can have your £500 if you repay my £6000. They said No can do, and kept putting the phone down on me when ever I called or spoke to someone.

 

In the end my husband called and they stated they wanted their money back at £100 per month and there was nothing we could do about it so there :p

 

They began taking their money and we handed in our cards and got cash cards, I warned them if I found out other wise I would be back :)

 

Sure enough, I did find out different. I stated to the abbey that under section 13.6 of the banking code and under the administration of justice act 1970, thay have breached both of these regulations and have acted unlawful by forcing us to repay a debt when the account is in dispute and has been since March 2007 and has not been resolved satisfactorily by both parties concerned, that they should refund my money immediatley and have my account placed on hold pending the outcome of the test case!

 

It wasn't easy to begin with, they kept tellin to write to "Legal". Turns out Legal are "Ashurst" so I emailed them and quoted the above 2 regulations, they emailed abbey and told them account should be on hold and that no further action should be done on this account nor should the debt be collected.

 

I then had this confirmed and instructed them to return the money they have already taken from my husband and myself for the said debt as the collection was illegal. They informed me that, as the account was now on hold they would have to check all of this out. I informed them to do that, and ended up with a very helpful lady in complaints who informed me that as the money is going to be repaid that meant the debt would increase back to as it was, I said fine do that as you have caused me hardship by forcefully collecting this, as I have to wait for my money Abbey can wait for theirs. It has took a long 48 hours to keep reminding them I was not going to go away and I wanted my money back. Today they have finally agreed to reinstate the overdraft temporaily until the outcome of the test case and reimbursed me £300 with immediate effect!!

 

Not a bad ending to a stressfull week, which begs the question...as I got the refund of monies paid back to me for a debt owed...is there some good news around the corner from the good Judge himself???????

Ladidi

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Who knows Kia, as with the Abbey and all the rest of them, it seems they sometimes chop and change their tactics as often as they all seem to change their underwear...:p Lol

Ladidi

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Yup, after all, they get so much grief from consumers they either wet themselves laughing at us or sh*t themselves when we tell them how much we want back..:p LOL

Ladidi

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Everyone,

 

 

I thought I would update you all on the progress of our case. With teh new waiver in place, I took a chance and emailed ashurst to ask them re negiotiate settlement under the waiver rules.

 

They replied with an offer of 65% which was declined staright away. They then came back with an offer of 95% of total claimed without interest. But as the new waiver rules protect you I took this knowing I can still reclaim any difference owed should the case go in the consumers favour.

 

The cheque for the amount agreed arrived this morning and is safely in our bank account awaiting clearance.

 

I say to anyone wanting to have go. Do you never know you may be pleaseantly surprised :)

Ladidi

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Well done on getting your money back, I was shocked to read it, as I honestly thought that Abbey would not negotiate with anyone other than the hardship cases. Well done again, and I hope you enjoy spending your money. Hopefully this will be a sign of good things to come. :)

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Abbey, yep abbey, we put a claim in for bank charges which occurred with abbey due to a change in their account collection, let me explain.

 

We have a current account witth abbey and a bills account with abbey, have held both for many years now.

 

an automated transfer occurs each month and overnight, the transfer is credited to the bills account. the bills account has ddm's and on the day the money is shown as a credit, so too are the debits. what a lovely world it was, prompt and punctual.

 

then, without due notice, the debits were being taken before the credit on the same day and this triggered charges. it seems that abbey now tots up the debits before the credits and hey presto, countless thousands of accounts being charged extra charges.

 

we complained, got a glib response about money being in account the day before etc, but hey, both flippin accounts with abbey..

 

can we resurrect our complaint and claim back the unfair charges ?

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yes i think so might have to start from scratch though make sure this is right i was gonna wait to claim my charges back but u think its worth havin a crack now then cos i really need the money on benefits now sar first dare say :Dxxkia

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