Nell v RBS - deal or no deal?

[Nell2609]

Thank you, Yanni!!

 

Am printing them off now, to read through. Joy.

[Nell2609]

Cheers for the further assistance, Yanni.

 

In the midst of this court bundle business now, and it is driving me scatty! There are mounds of paperwork strewn everywhere. It is an assault course akin to the Krypton Factor finding my way to the PC.

 

Right, the arrows have not appeared, so the additional page would be greatly appreciated. Whilst rummaging, I managed to find T&Cs produced in 10/03 stating:

 

"Unpaid Fee - When cheques, standing oprders and Direct Debits are not paid due to a lack of funds in the account, there is a £30 charge per item."

 

Similar statements made re arranged/unarranged overdrafts and card abuse fees.

 

Even though this does not apply specifically to the year I opened the account (1999) will this go anyway in supporting my case? If so, am I expected to enclose the actual booklet in my bundle, or will a photocopy suffice?

 

Thanks again! A star you are!

[Yanni]

Nell - I have sent the actual Charges bit separately and I think photocopies should suffice after all it is only back-up to prove that the actual charges were part of the T&Cs when you opened the account - if the bank want to dispute them, let them produce their principal document and compare the two.

[Nell2609]

Hurrah! I have them!

 

Sorry for all the to-ing and fro-ing. Thank you so much!

[Yanni]

No worries - just glad to be of service:)

[Nell2609]

Bundle complete! As haven't heard anything since FSA stay, am dropping this off with the Courts on Monday.

[Nell2609]

Bundle dropped off on Monday and received covering note from Cobblers today, with copy of letter to County Court:

 

We would be grateful if this letter could be referred to the District Judge on a without notice basis with a request that an Order is made pursuant to CPR 3.1(2)(f) staying the claim, and the hearing listed for 9 August 2007 at 14:00, pending the judgment in the proceedings in OFT v. Abbey National plc and Others (Claim Number 2007 Folio 1186).

 

Expected, but crushing nonetheless.

 

Long shot, but will it matter that Cobblers have stated an incorrect hearing date?

[Nell2609]

Quick update:

 

- letter received from bank today, reiterating first offer made in April (£5387) which I did not accept the first time around

 

- phoned courts to enquire into status of claim as Cobbetts applied for stay, told that Judge advised hearing carrying on as scheduled

 

- hearing tomorrow

[Atlantic]

good luck nell and seriously well done for getting this far and getting a judge that has disapproved of the banks request for a stay.

 

I had 2 bank claims (one huge and one really tiny), and I have to admit I'm sort of glad I bottled out early on and accepted the banks (RBS in this case) offer on albeit the biggest claim of the two - because I would be nervous of the banks applying for court "stays" and all this test case stuff. I'm really glad in your case the judge has let you through - as I reckon you'll probably stand a huge chance of winning (and "full and final" settlement) now.....

 

Good luck with it all....... and keep us posted on your success...

 

Atlantic

[Nell2609]

Cheers, Atlantic.

 

Seriously quaking in my boots, and just want tomorrow to be over and done with now.

 

Who knows how it will go?...

 

You did what you felt best at the time, so no regrets.

 

Will post again tomorrow.

[Atlantic]

you're right: no regrets....... at least I can say that now!

 

Having worked in banks for the last 8 years I really did expect them (all of them and the regulators) to take action at some point - as things were getting a bit mad with hundreds of thousands of people claiming back vast sums of money (of course I am on side of consumer!).......

 

The only reason I didn't carry on was the fear of a test case..... which seems to have come about.....

 

My honest guess about how things will go in court tommorow is that you'll turn up, the bank definately won't turn up but will submit a 2 A4 page written defence in place of their having not turned up, and the judge will simply rule in your favour although he/ she might not actually say that at the time - you'll have to wait until afterwards to find out.

 

This is the whole point of the bank charges stuff: the banks are simply too terrified to let it come to court.... because they will simply lose!!

 

Have a good day tommorow!

[Nell2609]

Well, after an hour and twenty minutes of wringing my hands and dry retching I was ushered into Court Room 3.

 

I had a fair idea what the outcome would be, owing to the fact that Barclay's smug representative kept coming out of the room and thrusting his fist into the air as a sign that things were going the Banks' way.

 

The Judge was very pleasant - even congratulating me on my "very nicely prepared bundle" - but got straight to the point. No sooner had I introduced myself, she was explaining the recent OFT case and that this meant all cases would be stayed until 31 March 2008 or the outcome of the case.

 

I told her that I had anticipated this being the case and stated that I had prepared an appeal and asked whether I could submit it at this juncture. She advised that I could apply for the stay to be lifted, and that the letter she was going to hand me would explain the correct process.

 

Her cautionary words were that Manchester have agreed to stay all cases until September 2008 and that, even though I may appeal, only those cases with extenuating circumstances (i.e. home repossession) would have the stay lifted prior to March 2008.

 

Contents of letter presented at hearing:

 

In this claim, you are pursuing a bank on the basis that the terms and conditions under which charges have been imposed upon you by the bank are unfair within the meaning of the UTCCR 1999 and/or constitute unenforceable penalties.

 

On 25 July, a number of the larger banks entered into an agreement with the OFT and the FSA under which proceedings would be commenced by 27 July and pursued expeditiously in the Commercial Court to determine on a test case basis these very issues. David Steele J has been assigned to handle the Commercial Court litigation and, on 30 July at a case management conference he issued directions with a tight timetable with a view to the issues being tried in January/February 2008.

 

The Commercial Court litigation has been designed to ensure that the issues are dealt with expeditiously, fairly and in an orderly manner. It is likely that that litigation will either determine or at least give considerable guidance to the outstanding individual cases, including your claim. In the circumstances, the designated Civil Judge for **** is anxious that parties to individual claims in **** are not put to unnecessary costs until the outcome of the Commercial Court litigation is known. Therefore, in relation to your claim he has made an order on the court's own motion that the case be stayed with immediate effect, pending the ultimate outcome of the Commercial Court litigation or the 31 March 2008 whichever is the sooner.

 

Of course, if either you (or the bank, to whom I am sending a copy of this letter) consider that, irrespective of the Commercial Court litigation, this individual claim should proceed now then you may apply to the judge for the stay to be lifted. Any application should set out why this individual action should eb allowed to proceed now, given the Commercial Court litigation has been designed to determine the issues which apparently lie between the parties in your case. In any event, the judge will issue further directions in this case once the Commercial Court litigation has been determined.

 

So there you have it. Feel completely deflated and quite incensed that the cases weren't stayed prior to the hearing, when RBS requested it.

[vonnie32]

Oh no, not good news at all....but think on the positive side...all that accumulating interest you will get your hands on maybe later rather than sooner though.

[Nell2609]

Well, yes, dependant on the outcome it roughly equates to an additional £50 a month in interest.

 

Still gutted though.

[vonnie32]

I know what you mean but hopefully it will all come good in the end and the smirking lawyer won't be so happy then!

 

£50 per month for the next 6 months that will cover the cost of the champers you will be buying courtsey of RBS.

 

We need to keep going and not let them get us down.

[Atlantic]

I'm really sorry things didn't work out for you - but at least it is only a "stay"...... so they might get better in the new year after the test case....

 

They do say that claiming against credit cards is completely fine - it's just the banks that have done this....

[Nell2609]

You're right about the credit cards, Atlantic. I was talking to a lawyer representing a TSB claimant this afternoon, and he said that credit card companies had reviewed their charges and agreed that £12 was a fair charge, hence why they are paying out.

 

If anything, it was something I can put down to experience. Albeit a frustrating one.

 

What I am not sure of is whether, come March, I will be expected to attend a further hearing or whether the Judge will just grant the claim, if the banks lose?

 

And Vonnie, I would love to be fly on the wall when the smiling assassin has the grin wiped from his smarmy face and his wildly gesticulating arm bent up his back.

[hedgey06]

Hi Nell, I'm so sorry about what happened today, I was really hoping that you'd get a positive outcome from the hearing

 

I hadn't realised you was attending in Manchester - I could have gone with you for some moral support. Not that it would have made much difference by the sounds of things though.

 

We're none of us sure what's going to happen once the test case has been heard and/or next March arrives and the test case hasn't been finalised. But as soon as news comes in, it will be posted up for everyone to see and act upon.

 

Best wishes to you. xx

[Atlantic]

I can well understand your frustration - I have a strong feeling the days of bank charge claims have finally come to and end.

 

I do hope you're right about the credit cards - and I'll endeavor to carry on doing something with my two credit card claims......

 

I hope things work out for you in march....and maybe just maybe you could sue for malicious malpractice against the idiot lawyer!!

[Nell2609]

Thanks for the offer, Hedgey, most kind. But it was held in Liverpool. The Judge only mentioned Manchester to highlight that Liverpool had given their claimants a better offer of March, as opposed to Manchester staying claims until September.

 

Thanks for support, Atlantic.

[Nell2609]

Right, following last week's hearing this landed on my mat this morning:

 

Upon reading the file

 

AND UPON IT APPEARING THAT the issues in this case are to be considered in litigation currently before the Commercial Court (2007 Folio 1196)

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The claim be stayed with immediate effect pending the ultimate determination of the Commercial Court litigation or the 31st March 2008 whichever is the sooner.

 

2. Permission to apply to lift or extend the stay. Any application shall (i) be made on notice to all other parties, (ii) include reasons why this claim should proceed before the ultimate determination of the Commercial Court litigation and (iii) shall be reserved to DJ Bellamy.

 

3. Unless the Court has given directions in the meantime, the Claimant shall upon notice to the Defendant apply for directions within 3 months of the ultimate determination of the Commercial Court litigation.

 

With reference to point 2, and in view of the Judge's comments last week, is it worth me submitting an appeal for the stay to be lifted using the updated OFT template?

 

And what do I have to do with regard to point 3?

 

As always, any help appreciated!

[Nell2609]

With reference to point 2, and in view of the Judge's comments last week, is it worth me submitting an appeal for the stay to be lifted using the updated OFT template?

 

And what do I have to do with regard to point 3?

 

Is there anybody there??

[Nell2609]

Therefore, in relation to your claim he has made an order on the court's own motion that the case be stayed with immediate effect, pending the ultimate outcome of the Commercial Court litigation or the 31 March 2008 whichever is the sooner.

 

Excerpt lifted from letter handed to me at court hearing whereby case was stayed (full text in previous thread).

 

Can somebody tell me what I am expected to do now? Do I wait until the OFT case is decided (anybody have any news on this, all quiet on the media front?) or do I contact them by 31 March? In a nutshell, what does this mean for me now?

[hedgey06]

Hi Nell,

 

Unfortunately, it's still a case of waiting to see 'what happens next'. Although, if there's still no outcome from the test case by 31st March it would be wise to contact the court again - just to see what they're doing with all the stayed claims.

 

Most of the discussion about the test case is taking place here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/oft-test-case-updates/126399-oft-test-case-new-post.html so it's a good thread to visit for updates and discussion.

[Nell2609]

Thanks for getting back to me, Hedgey. I did place a call with the Courts this week, enquiring into the state of play, and was advised that I would receive a letter in writing in due course. Good enough, letter arrived today:

 

]IT IS ORDERED THAT[/b]

1. The claim be stayed pending the final determination of the O.F.T. test case, to include any appeal.

2. Permission be given to apply to lift the stay or set aside or vary this order within 7 days of service of this order. Any application shall be on notice to all parties and shall be supported by a statement setting out why this claim should be proceed before all final determination of the O.F.T. test case.

3. Unless the Court has already given directions, the claimant may within three months of the final determination of the O.F.T. test case apply for directions for the future conduct of this claim.

 

Dated 05 March 2008[/QUOTE]

 

Does part 2 mean that I can appeal the extension of ths stay? If so, how do I submit this appeal i.e. specific court document, and is there a generic template I can utilise from CAG to strengthen my appeal?

 

Any help much appreciated, owing to 7 day deadline!