Sage v NatWest. **I WON!!**

[katesage]

Hi all,

RE NATWEST BANK CHARGES

 

I am absolutely brand new to the site but have been stuck on here for about 5 hrs reading up on all i need to know in order to tackle my charges. I sit here surrounded by bank and credit card statements, slowly realising that over several accounts I have been charged at least £4000 in just rejected DD's, cheque bounces and unauthorised overdraft use.

 

But every time my account is in trouble, something called a monthly 'Paid Referral Fee' appears. They vary between £25 and £50 per month on top of a £6 'Service Fee' God knows what they all are and I'm too scared to call my quite pleasant business manager to ask as I feel bad for what I'm about to do. (well not that bad actually!!) They sometimes appear several times in a month and always say eg Paid Referral Fee relates to 16th Aug. These fees rack up considerably over the years but only appear when I'm in the ****!

 

This site is wonderful, an ex Amex employee recommended it, karma is good!

 

Kate:???: :-|

 

 

I have a business account that is a small ltd company, can i claim? Does the limited status restrict me.

[katesage]

Wow, thanks!

I can't believe how much this is racking up to, between my business account and Adv Gold there have been at least £4500 in charges. I'm just a bit worried because one of the threads congratulated a guy on getting back £1240 but expressed suprise because NW doesn't cooperate on larger amounts. Mine's gong to blow them out of the water!

I like my business manager, but he sold me a dreadful mortgage that I had to pay to escape from because they stopped doing self cert, so I got lumbered with an inflexible product on a property they knew I had bought as an investment and intended to sell. So i don't feel heaps of sympathy!

I will keep reading but have typed up three seperate DPA letters for business, Adv Gold and Credit card, all with seperate £10 fees because I assume they will have to deal with each case seperately and I have about 80% of personal statements, 10% credit cards and 100% of business(in storage with accountants) so i'd prefer to get all the info in one go to get a definitive amount of the total charges.

Hope i'm making the right start.

Thanks again

kate:)

[katesage]

Thanks again, that saves me another tenner!

I am the only (living!) director of this company and it has only existed for three years. Why might it be tricky to get the info?

Takes a while to get the hang of this but I'm a trainee legal exec so it will be excellent practise! Think I'm going to specialise in Consumer Law, this is fascinating!

 

Can anyone else give feedback on what Natwest are like? the survey results are quite promising, I'm just nervy cos its such a large amount.

 

Thanks

[katesage]

Ok! i have spent most of today reading all the FAQs and other forum users experiences. I'm biting nails for MountainOfDebt and her Can of Worms!

Now, how do I keep a thread going of my experience. The DPA letters go off tomorrow recorded delivery and I'll need alot of advice and support.

I dont want my thread to be called 'Paid Referral Fees' how do I retitle it or do I start a new thread!?

I am owed £2088 on my NW personal account, similiar on my NW business and about a grand on three credit cards. How do I insert the progress info. Have I missed an entire section of the site?!

Thanks for all advice so far

Kate

[katesage]

PRETTY PLEASE!!!

 

err I guess Sage v NatWest. Let Battle Commence!

How do I start the info burst about the various companies I'm tackling. Its 70% Natwest, so I'll keep it in this thread but if I have success with Morgan Stanley and Virgin Card, I'd like to announce it somewhere other than the rooftops!

 

Can you recommend a previous completed story concerning NW and larger sums, there are so many threads I'm not sure where to start.

 

 

DO I JUST WRITE IT HERE AS IT HAPPENS!?

THIS MAKES ME FEEL RATHER DUMB!! eg NW paid me £5000

[katesage]

PS I bought The book, Thanks for the recommendation.

[katesage]

Hurrah! I feel like I'm getting going now. Have sent of the DPA letters to NatWest. Recorded of course. Ripped Tatty brown envelopes expected and will take inspiration from toilet bandit in kicking up a fuss.

 

Have just used Vamps spreadsheet to calculate charges onto my Adv Gold as I have 95% of the statements, (yes I was shocked at my organisation skills!) If they are correct then NW owe me £2513.08p.

 

One of the other DPAs relates to my business account, charges are likely to be about 1500.

 

Can anyone advise on NatWest's likely response. I have been a bit concerned by some recent threads about how hard Cobbetts Solicitors are fighting back. Has there just been a case of a guy losing in court? Cant find the thread but did find some confusing stuff about the charges being justified as a service and that they used a pricy barrister.

Is this an important recent development, cos it says in several places that no

bank has yet fought it in court?

 

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08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Adv Gold £2513.08

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Gold Mastercard £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Business Acc £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent Virgin Card £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent Morgan Stanley £unknown

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[katesage]

thanks barracad

 

think you are right, rbrears thread today is obviously great and also mentions the cases. thought it was natwest but it doesnt really make a difference, the principles are the same.

dpa's went off yesterday so i await with trepidation what will happen next.

just a quick q, is it a bad idea to engage in verbal communication. i had a v good relationship with my business manager but after totting up all the charges yesterday i was so cross at being charged 29quid a month even when in credit. they upgraded me to premium after a sold my house and had some money in my account, i got cr*p service and appear to have paid alot extra for it. i was in frequent contact with him because he would move money between accounts for me,so i was a good communicator but in 5 yrs only three £38 charges were refunded.

i didnt call because i thought it might muddy the waters, i mean if i ring up and say please refund me 2500quid, he's hardly likely to oblige!?

i guess i've answered my own question:rolleyes:

thanx again

k

[katesage]

Thanks B

 

Kinda seems pointless in engaging verbally cos a 'humble' business manager is never gonna have authority to refund that kind of money. More to do with spleen venting............which is also a bad idea!

what if he calls me!? errr can i call u back. rushes off to get dictaphone!

k

[katesage]

hi there

 

not nosy at all!

thanks for that info. your thread has had me on the edge of my seat all week! really been feeling it for you, i was so pleased to see you got an (almost) complete settlement. that must have been a good post opening moment?!

My business manager handles my Adv Gold as well as my Business Acc so I'm expecting contact from him next week.

They do seem to like to play brinksmanship games, rbrears got a great settlement yesterday but they really took it to the wire. huge encouragement to those of us at the early stages.

i will keep checking your thread as and when i hit those stages but am expecting it to play out in a similiar fashion.

have you been requested to downgrade or hand back c books etc?

anyway enjoy your victory on this gorgeous sunny day, well done again.

kate:)

 

 

 

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08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Adv Gold £2513.08

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Gold Mastercard £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent NW Business Acc £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent Virgin Card £unknown

08/06/2006 DPA Letter Sent Morgan Stanley £unknown

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[katesage]

Hi all

 

Just spoke to Royal Mail Track and Trace.

They say that the 'big' companies often set up a 'cage' in the sorting office and they come in to collect it 2-3 times a week.

Don't see how they can sign for them in this case as they usually use someone like a security company to collect. ??????

Mine was sent 8th, you other guys were the 6th and 7th so not sure what they are up to. As I said on Pix's thread I reckon the best bet is to also visit the branch and try to get someone to sign for receipt there. Then at least the forty day clock can start ticking.

 

Good luck all

Kate:)

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8/6/06 DPA Sent NW Adv Gold £2513.08

8/6/06 DPA Sent NW Gold Mastercard

8/6/06 DPA Sent NW Business Acc

8/6/06 DPA Sent Virgin Card rcvd 9/6/06

8/6/06 DPA Sent Morgan Stanley rcvd 9/6/06

8/6/06 DPA Sent Halifax

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Despite being a trainee legal executive Kate has absolutely no professional basis to offer legal advice and if unsure you should always seek qualified, insured legal advice!

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

 

POWER TO THE LITTLE PEOPLE!

 

 

[katesage]

Hi all

 

boy its crowded on here today! Welcome to all new users of the site, its a bit like discovering The Matrix. Red Pill or Blue Pill!?

 

Anyhow.......

As advised by Pixl and many others I rang NW this morning on 08456052605. Got a lovely lady called Julie. She was very helpful and ordered my statements for me for two accounts at a charge of a fiver...........................................

she then put me through to 'customer support' where they were also v helpful and just asked how far i wanted the statements to go back. She also asked if it was 'to do with getting my charges back', I said yes it was.

I told her about my lost DPA letters and she admitted they have been absolutely innundated and that there were 'probably' delays and hold ups at head office.

She then very sweetly agreed to stop the cheques in those envelopes on the basis that they were 'lost' rather than 'stopped' because that way is free rather than the £10 it costs to stop a (£10!!) cheque.

She was curious about what I'm doing but not in a big brother way, more helpful than i expected in a million years.

Now lets just see if those statements arrive in 5-10 days. I did say it was a DPA request but you never know:-)

Kate:)

[katesage]

Oooh I've been having fun!

 

Rang Natwest Current Account to request statements, explained about 'lost' DPA's (all three of them!!) they agreed to send me all statements for a fiver, couldn't have been nicer although they did ask why? Totally honest and upfront to the lady, so i'll probably get naff all!!!

Then rang credit cards.........totally different! 'No, DPA requests don't cover statements, that'll be 3 quid per statement'

Obviously I beg to differ.........Put thru to supervisor..........who said the same thing, over and over and over!!! I told her i had sent full DPA request so she needed to supply me this info. She said she could help me no further because she didn't know whether what i was saying was correct, could i please ring head office.

This is the funny bit, she then said, if head office agreed with my point of view could they 'kindly send a memo to Southend, to enable them to give accurate advice to customers making these requests'

Ha bloody ha!! I then rang the Customer Relations number supplied from the contact details for Natwest. Not Head office i found out. The first question after I explained was ' and did credit cards give u this number'?!

I said no 'I had it on file'!!! Any way she got straight onto my complaint, said she'd investigate missing DPAs credit card request etc. Lo and behold I got a call from a lovely Mrs Carpenter who agreed to send me all my credit card

statements pronto, gratis.

and yes...I did say to 'head office',Credit Cards, Southend would appreciate a memo from you guys to explain what they can and can't offer customers, they are pretty confused and would appreciate guidance from head office' I could almost hear her retching!!!!!!

They are not happy bunny's:p

[katesage]

Thanks for that Barracad:)

Now i'm really confused, I thought that Durant v FSA 2003 clarified that statements and all transactional data did fall under the data protection act.

I know its open to interpretation but as statements represent the most comprehensive record of info on a subject held by a bank, I thought that for practicality purposes this was now covered????

Strangely the second lady Mrs Carpenter also agreed to send statements as she now believed they were subject to SAR. It was my mentioning the 'lost' DPA that caused her to agree to comply with my wishes.

Can anyone recommend a thread that explores this fully, I can see there are subtleties and I dont wish to prejudice my case with basic c*** ups!!

kate

[katesage]

just found one of the posts that led to me forming my opinion

 

Repy to them making sure that they undersatnd that they have received a Data Protection Act request from you.

Quote Durant (linked in the library) that it has been held that data does include statements. Remind them that they have fiduciary duty towards you under which they are obliged to excercise utmost care in the accuracy of the statements which they make to you and that to make a false representation would be a serious breach of this duty and that if they persist that you may bring the matter to the attention of the Court as well as the Information Commissioner whene you make your complaint.

 

Remind them also that they have a contractual as well as a statutory duty to comply fully with your reasonable requests unther UK legislation - viz. the Data protection Act and this also might be brought to the attention of the court.

 

hope you can see why i'm lost?!

[katesage]

Statements arrived yesterday in double wrapped brown envelope, taped up properly, all statements requested going back to 2001. Not bad considering I only called up for them last wednesday. 10/10 for prompt serveice.

 

If any one can answer my previous query I'd be most grateful.

 

Now to tot up all those charges.................................

[katesage]

Grrrrrrrr! Pix that is typical inconsistent behaviour from snatchwest, my friend just rang up to ask for her statements for a fiver. They tried to refuse and said she had to make a formal DPA written request for £10.

She said, Yes I know that and I will do that if you insist but my mate Kate XXXXXXX just got all hers for a fiver. Why are you treating us differently. She then gave them my account details and they said they'd look into it and call her back. They did 10 mins later and agreed to send all her statements for a fiver!

Really hope your statements arrive soon Pix cos you rang up for your before me??

Hardly consistent or fair really.

K:confused:

[katesage]

Cheers Ben and welcome to the site.

Hope you get your earlier statements promptly. Can't predict when as they seem to be in a right muddle at the mo!

look forward to reading your thread.

good luck

Kate:)

[katesage]

Ok just an update.

 

Credit card statements and personal account statements received ok, also letter from joyce tudor promising the rest of the statements and returning two of my DPA cheques, happy to provide all 3 accounts.

They owe me a total of £2724 on the current and credit card but i will claim them separately.

sent off preliminary request letter today for the personal account and the cc goes tomorrow.

hopefully biz statements will be here soon.

 

so far so good.........

 

ps

my totally skint best mate (single mum holding down v low paid job) has received her statements, she rang me up squealing, oh my god they owe me nearly 4 grand. for her, that money literally means the end of being in debt and worry, literally lifechanging stuff. Thanks BAG:)

[katesage]

Blimey!

I only posted my preliminary letter on tuesday, got bog off letter from stuart higley today. so that means staight to LBA. i dont think they are even bothering to read our letters properly anymore but at least quick reply, bringing moneyclaim even closer.

[katesage]

Hi Pix

Dont know if the fact i sent mine special delivery made a difference? You sent your prelim before me didnt you?

It made me laugh that they said in my letter

'Having reviewed your account, I can find no instance where charges have been applied when they were not properly due. They have been associated with lack of covering funds in the account'

 

How did they have time to 'review' the account, they received my letter and replied to it on the same day!?

Still can't complain, I'm typing my LBA next!!

[katesage]

HI ALL

 

I've just typed up my LBA and as requested by Stuart Wriggly I will send it to head office, not Borehamwood.

Thats cool, but to whom do I address the letter? It seems weird just sending it to Natwest with no name or department to direct it towards.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Kate:)

[katesage]

Received negative response to my LBA from Stuart Higley.

 

Strangely he said....

 

Dear Ms KateSage

Thankyou for your further letter, undated but received here on 5 July 2006. (ooops!)

I note that you believe that we had acted as your fiduciary but this is not part of the normal banker/customer relationship and I am unsure of the basis of your contention.

However I am sorry that we have reached this poaition but I regret there is little that I can add constructively to my last letter and I note your proposed course of action. I have alerted our lawyers and litigation department blah blah blah.

Thank you for letting me know of your intentions.

Yours sincerely

Stuart Higley

(signed in proper fountain pen)

 

so i think i got his personal attention!

 

What on earth did he mean?

 

Strange comment that I havn't seen before.

 

Also since my LBA I have had 3 further £38 charges. Can I add these to my Moneyclaim or do I need to write another letter.

Now for Moneyclaim, which I will probably leave till next week when I get my broadband back. I'm on dial up at the moment and it is fairly slow.

[katesage]

PMSL:D

 

You sound like my mum!!!!

Ok I have left this afternoon TOTALLY FREE to do it. Please keep me company guys, I expect a total b*llocking if i havnt done it by 4.30pm. Clock ticking!!

 

25 posts in 2 weeks, THATS Nothing!!! I used to do WAY more!!

 

Thanks so much !!

[katesage]

Just talking to Nan and Grandad in Oz. They are repatriating in September and they are who I'm building the cottage for. It's like having a cross world site meeting! I'll be on to it in about 20mins! Promise!!

Thanks mum!