AlphaGeeK Vs Amex ***WON***

[Alphageek]

Hi everyone, long time lurker on here and have been reading everything my (now square shaped) eyes could take in over the past couple of weeks.

 

I think I know what to do to get the ball rolling, but am going to post here for 2 reasons.

 

First, so you people who are further along and more experienced than I can (if you're feeling helpful) keep me on the right track should I start to veer off in the wrong direction.

 

Secondly (and more importantly), to try and keep this thread as informative as possible so any other people who have suffered at the hands of the illegal actions of the parasitical financial institutions will feel that they are empowered to claim back their rights (and money, interest and possible damages).

 

Some of the stories you read on here are nothing short of scandalous. The lengths the lending institutions, banks, debt collection agencies and bailiffs go to is unbelievable.

 

Fortunately, it seems we have good laws in this country and it seems fairly straightforward to get them off your backs and to refund any unlawful charges they have taken.

 

My 1st tip for any lurkers reading this is to get started as soon as you find yourself having issues with any lenders or want to claim back your money. Giving the lenders any more time to harass you only benefits them.

[Alphageek]

So, on to my situation.

 

I got behind on my Amex account payments and they defaulted me.

 

Note to lurkers (and self): I could have quite easily prevented this default being registered. See my tip no. 1 above.

 

Debt sold to or is now being handled by Debt Collection Agents (acronym DCA) Newman and Company of Leeds.

 

I can see the default on my credit report via CreditExpert (http://www.creditexpert.co.uk). It shows as the following;

 

The account is defaulted. You have failed to keep to your credit agreement and have not responded satisfactorily to requests to put your account in order. As a result the credit agreement has ended.

The most annoying phone calls from Newman's and interminable letters followed.

 

I agreed a payment plan and have pretty much adhered to it.

 

The balance when I first hit problems was around 10K. My latest Amex statement shows I owe around 1.5k.

 

So I now wish to claim back the unlawful charges.

 

I am going to issue a S.AR. (Subject Access Request) letter and a CCA (Consumer Credit Act) letter to Amex.

 

The SAR will compel them to produce all data they hold about me and the CCA will be asking them to produce a true copy of the executed credit agreement.

 

The data I will receive under the SAR will enable me to work out how much illegally obtained money of mine they have and if they cannot produce the true copy of the executed credit agreement, the agreement is invalid and no debts are enforceable.

 

Will post more later.

[Alphageek]

Sorry, had to go to pick my Girl-friend's dog up from the Vets.

 

Anyway, back to business.

 

The format of these letters, or templates can be found on this site.

 

The SAR is here.

 

and the CCA is here - Letter N

 

(Note: IF you're new here, you will need to sign up and be logged in to see the text of those templates)

 

 

My latest Amex statement is ~1.5k, yet the latest letter from Newmans says I owe ~3.5k. I guess they're looking for a healthy profit.

 

My first question then is; Should I SAR and CCA the DCA as well as Amex so I have the full picture.

 

The reason I ask about the sense in SAR and CCAing the DCA is that I don't think there has ever been a Deed of Assignment from Amex to Newmans and they are just "acting on behalf of..."

 

Their letters always say something like "...instructions from our client to proceed further..."

 

I am of the mind to SAR and CCA both parties, wait until their 12 days are up (for the CCA) and if/when they fail to produce change my payment instalments to £5.00 (as a gesture of good will (GOGW)) while I proceed with claiming back the illegal charges.

 

All suggestions welcomed.

[steven4064]

It can't hurt to CCA the DCA - I think we proabaly have a duty to hastle these people - it helps them understand what its like to be on the other side of the fence. I don't think sendin them a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) will produce anything unless you think they may be applying unlawful charges too. I suspect that Newman have not bought the debt so there will be no deed of assignment - from Newman's website:

 

"With 20 years experience in the Debt Recovery sector, Newman and Company Ltd is an expanding business that provides debt collection services to clients throughout the UK. Set-Up in 1986, the business is located in Leeds.

 

Newman and Company specialises in the collection of overdue accounts for a variety of clients, both large and small, across a wide range of industries including large blue chip companies, utilities and major banks both in the UK and overseas.

 

The service operates on a no collection, no fee basis and can be tailored to meet any unique client requirements"

 

Basically, they do the banks' dirty work and get paid when they collect. No collection, no fee probabbly sharpens the mind and makes them rather unpleasant. I note they also have "investors in people" certification. That's their people not 'real' people of course.

 

Steven

 

[Alphageek]

Hi Steven,

 

Thanks for popping by.

 

I was thinking of sending a SAR to the DCA so I have lots of ammunition about their calls & letters when I eventually warn them off for possible harrasment.

 

Would they not log all calls and mail in a database and thus have to disclose?

 

Anyway, I think £10.00 worth of annoyance will = for me.

 

I guess you're right though. I guess I can't tell then to stop contact until in dispute, so anything previous will be irrelevant?

[steven4064]

They should keep records of phone calls - specifically mention that oh your SAR or they will just send statements, assuming that is what you want.

 

Steven

 

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[Alphageek]

CCA and SAR sent to Amex and Newman this morning via recorded delivery. They will be deemed to have received it on 17/05/2007.

[Alphageek]

Royal Mail site shows the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and CCA delivered to Amex today (under separate cover).

 

Interestingly, the same things sent to Newmans in Leeds has not been delivered yet. I guess they'll show up tomorrow.

[Alphageek]

Royal mail shows Newmans in receipt of both letters today.

[Alphageek]

Received a reply from Amex today. It consisted of the following;

• A compliments slip with "Free of charge. Regards, Illegible Sig"
  
• The £1 PO I sent as fee for the CCA request
  
• 2 copies of 13 pages headed "GOLD CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"
  
• A photocopy of what looks like 2 application forms

Here is the photocopy. Blurring applied by me and some text added to show what I have removed.

 

Image Scan Here

 

Clearly, this is not a true copy of the executed agreement.

 

Question: Should I write thanking them for the enclosed but reminding them that I asked for a true copy of the executed agreement and the application form they sent me cannot be assumed to be it.

 

Should remind them of the original time scale (from when they first received my original request) and should I send them the PO back?

 

I thought I had seen a nice template letter for this somewhere, but can't find it

 

Thanks.

[Alphageek]

Oh, I should add that I have not read the 2 13 page documents yet, but they seem to be the same thing on 1st glance.

 

Neither of them have any dates on nor any handwritten notes.

 

They both have what I take to be the word processing document reference in the header or footer (CAM 4520 - 301 -d64-wp-18.01.06) and probably supposed to be the terms at the time of opening the account and the present terms.

[Alphageek]

Also, the small print on the app form, above, you can read as well as I can. i.e., it's pretty illegible!

[steven4064]

I think you should just write and remind them of their obligations (including timescales) under the CCA and that what they have sent is not adequate. By all means send them the £1 back - after all that is your obligation under the CCA

 

Steven

 

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[Alphageek]

I'll put something together tomorrow. Thanks.

[Alphageek]

A package arrived this morning via recorded delivery. It is the response to my SAR.

 

The package consisted of the following;

 

• Cover letter dated 17.5.07, stating "Dear Alpahageek, Please find enclosed copies of statements detailing all charges as requested. Should you have any further queries regarding the statements please do not hessitate to contact us in writing. Yours sincerely," - pp signed for a Data Protection Co-ordinator.
  
• My £10 cheque
  
• Copies of my statements. The earliest being dated in Jan 2001.The latest being this month's

There is no notation regarding any manual intervention, nor is there a statement that there is no such notation due to the lack of any such manual intervention. My SAR letter specifically asked for this.

 

Are Amex obliged to supply statements from the time of account opening in 1997 and not just for the last 6 years? If they are, and they have levied unlawful penalty charges am I able to reclaim them?

 

I am also surprised there are no details of the transferring of the account to the DCA, I was expecting copy letters, default notices (if any), Deed of Assignment (if any).

 

Also, there surely must be more information held on this account (discounting the DCA saga) that they have failed to supply, or have I really been just a number to them afterall?

 

As per the CCA request, should I write back (enclosing the original cheque) and request the missing information?

 

I suppose I should get on with completing a spredsheet. Which is the best to use for Amex?

 

Thanks.

[steven4064]

Alphageek

 

There is no notation regarding any manual intervention, nor is there a statement that there is no such notation due to the lack of any such manual intervention. My S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter specifically asked for this.

 

Then you should write and remind them - use the Data Protection Act non-complaince letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

Are Amex obliged to supply statements from the time of account opening in 1997 and not just for the last 6 years? If they are, and they have levied unlawful penalty charges am I able to reclaim them?

 

THey should supply everything they have about you and that includes all statements back to whenever. Put it in your letter. Yes you can recalim them - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80486-claiming-beyond-6-yrs.html?highlight=6+years

 

I am also surprised there are no details of the transferring of the account to the DCA, I was expecting copy letters, default notices (if any), Deed of Assignment (if any).

 

These should be supplied - put it in your letter

 

Also, there surely must be more information held on this account (discounting the DCA saga) that they have failed to supply, or have I really been just a number to them afterall?

 

You would think so and, if there is, it should be supplied - put that in the letter too

 

As per the CCA request, should I write back (enclosing the original cheque) and request the missing information?

 

I think so - see above

 

I suppose I should get on with completing a spredsheet. Which is the best to use for Amex?

 

I personally think Mindzai's is the easiest to use - see bottom of first post on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Steven

 

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[Alphageek]

In response to the agreement form being sent for my CCA request.

 

My Address

Place

Place

P/Code

 

Date

 

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

Dear Person,

 

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

 

Thank you for your letter postmarked 17.05.07 and the enclosure of a copy of my original application form together with what I presume to be a copy of the terms and conditions applicable to the account at opening and those applicable today.

 

My original letter (copy enclosed) requested that you send me a true copy of the executed credit agreement. Your above mentioned letter did not have this enclosed. I ask you to correct this omission and provide me with said true copy.

 

The application form does not represent a true copy of an executed agreement having various prescribed terms missing and is, in parts, illegible.

 

I ask you to be mindful of the wording of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) and remind you that my original letter is deemed to have been received by yourselves on the 17.05.07 and that you should comply with my properly formatted request within 12 working days.

 

I re-enclose £1.00, in the form of a postal order, which represents the fee payable under the act for this request.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Postal Oder serial number 000000 00 0000 00000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments before I send?

 

Thanks.

[steven4064]

Looks good

 

Steven

 

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[Alphageek]

I personally think Mindzai's is the easiest to use - see bottom of first post on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Hi, thanks for the pointers.

 

Mindzai's spreadsheet states that it should not be used for credit cards on the Notes tab. Do you know why?

[steven4064]

Hi, thanks for the pointers.

 

Mindzai's spreadsheet states that it should not be used for credit cards on the Notes tab. Do you know why?

 

No I don't know why. If you put the APR on page 1 with the other data and your charges on page 2 (ignore the interest stuff on page 2) then the interest calculation on page 4 is right. Paghe 3 is s69 interest which you should also ignore (for now).

 

Steven

 

 

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[Alphageek]

Letter re incomplete disclosure under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

 

Address

Address

Address

Address

Postcode

 

Date

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Dear Person,

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated Monday, 15 May 2007 (copy enclosed). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

1. You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges dated between account opening in DATE and DATE
   
2. The screen dump in lieu of MONTHS’s statement is not annotated and is, therefore, meaningless to me.
   
3. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.
   
4. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to a default entered by your company against my credit reference agency file on or around DATE. Particularly statutory default notices.
   
5. You have provided no notes, or documents relating the transfer of the account to DCA on or around DATE. Particularly a deed of assignment.

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

You have a further thirty six days to comply, or I will seek an order in the County Court under the Data Protection Act.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Personal cheque number 000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments?

[steven4064]

Hi alphageek

 

Looks good except that te last sentence needs an 'or else'

 

Steven

 

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[Alphageek]

Can I not just print the frames of your avatar?

[Josie8]

I didn't even receive a copy of my application - they only sent me a set of their latest terms and conditions.............kept my £1.00 postal order though!......................So I'll be sending a similar letter to you on Monday ......only question is is it better to delay informing them that they haven't supplied what we requested and that subsequently they are in breach and that we are not as dim as they think we are so that they breach the 30 day limit as well and commit a criminal breach? They've already paid out in full on my penalty charges and interest - I'm CCA'ing them to try and stop them giving my personal data to the CRA's.

[steven4064]

...only question is is it better to delay informing them that they haven't supplied what we requested and that subsequently they are in breach and that we are not as dim as they think we are so that they breach the 30 day limit as well and commit a criminal breach?

 

I don't think you should do that. Our strength is that we behave reasonably and do things properly. Don't descend to their level. In any case, you want this all sorted as quickly as possible, don't you.

 

Steven

 

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