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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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I realise that I do not usually share the same opinions as some Cabottors. It is of course entirely your choice whether you discuss or discard any of the issues I have raised. What I will say is, whatever you decide, I have nothing to gain or lose as I have purely undertaken to disclose the above as a matter of courtesy and assistance. Nevertheless, you will at least appreciate how much time it has taken me to do this. Some of you will possibly be pleased to learn that I have decided to cease posting in the Cabot Forum unless specifically asked by the thread originator.

 

Did I miss something? Why the negative post? Have you got into argument with somebody?

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Kind of. Some say that Cabot must own both the rights & duties whereas my opinion is that there must be some legal framework that shows statements in their letters to be correct (albeit without the same knowledge, a little misleading to the consumer). As you can probably guess each time I raise the issue I get ignored, accused of being a Cabot friend or just told it has already been discussed and they cannot do it.

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It does make sense. But also, when companies - or the original creditor - assigns the debt to another company it also must assign and the duties, otherwise the original creditor is condoning possible breach in the OFT guidelines and related legislative acts. What I mean is that by passing the right and ALSO the duties to the company assigned to collect the debt, the Law actually creates sort of a regulatory mechanism - otherwise what is to stop the DCAs to come into your house to collect money or harrass you (as they do) into paying the full amount NOW or whatever other awful practices they can come up with (read the forum and take your pick)?

I think, the 'transfer of the rights and duties' is drafted with this in mind - but then again I might be wrong...

The fact and the matter is that regardless who is the original owner of the debt - i.e. the creditor, there SHOULD be a credit agreement - properly executed. Otherwise I do not understand how you can delegate or assign the debt to somebody...

Imagine I am original creditor and you are DCA - if I don't have the credit agreement how do I prove to you that what I'm selling to you (or assigning) actually exists? By pinky swear? I have to actually show you documents that the debt exists (and application form does NOT prove this).

You do raise some points in your post and I wish that other people get in on the discussion as well.

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What does work though is if the assignment is equitable and, irrespective of whether the hello or goodbye letter is produced, the other 2 conditions required for absolute legal assignment have not been accounted for in the actual DOA.

This is very interesting Activ so what are the two other conditions you mention here?

and...

Now the DCA concept is working in exactly the same way (except they are authorised to data process too and probably get a % of income generated).

 

 

This idea of the DCAs getting a cut of the data processing has been aired before and a number of us believe this to be the case. Richard Spud suggested serving a S10 under the Data Protection Act removing your permission to process your personal data would remedy this.

They are skating on thin ice though surely as many, if not most, of these so called agreements are nothing more than the original application form and there is no executed agreement then the debt is unenforceable and the data processing is being unlawfully applied. Do you think companies like Cabot realise that they are possibly staring at a jail sentence?

I see that only today Richard Thomas the Information Commissioner has asked for sweeping powers to act on the banks (and DCAs) to stop them using personal data in this way.

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Richard kindly explained to us all that there are 3 conditions that need to be met in order for absolute legal assignment to take place. The hello/goodbye letters are only one of the conditions contained in the full DOA.. As I have already said absolute legal assignment does not fit in with what the DCA’s are actually doing.

 

Hello all, I thought I would add my two pence worth

 

to quote from Richard himself:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56819-deed-assignment-help-needed-3.html#post777598

"However, simply if the OC either sells the debt to the AC without giving Notice of Assignment to the debtor, in which case the sale will be an “Equitable Assignment” which in order for the debtor to be sued the Claim would need to be issued in the names of both OC and AC, or when Notice of Assignment is received by the debtor, the assignment automatically becomes a “Legal Assignment”, thus allowing the AC to then sue in their own name. Either way, a transfer of the title to the debt passes to an identifiable AC on the date the transfer document, “DOA” if you like, is signed by the OC."

 

 

 

So upon receipt of a Notice of Assignment, the assigment automatically becomes a "legal assignment"

 

I don't ever recall anyone actually being sent a Deed of Assignment. However, I do have three Notice's of Assignment from 3 OC's and copies of the subsequent Cabot "Hello" letters next to me,

 

I can't comment in relation to other DCA's, however in relation to Cabot as confirmed by Richard Spud the debts are not assigned by equitable assignment but by absolute assignment.

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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Having hijacked a Cabottors thread (SH) on my first posting, I have decided to share with all Cabottors my opinions of what I have discovered to date. Some relate solely to Cabot but the majority apply to all.

 

CCA non-production

 

In some cases this may well be genuinely gone forever. Are they holding it back, perhaps to make you out of time for obtaining some of the illegal charges later?

CCA request

 

Why do they then request from OC if they supposedly bought it. Under Absolute Legal Assignment all correspondence would have moved to the new owner. .

 

When a debt is sold to a DCA by a financial institution, they are normally provided with no documentation. Absolute Assignment only relates to the actual selling of the debt. Before any questions this, I do know this for a FACT and this does not mean the assignment must then be equitable.

 

Rights & duties

These are still there but not where you think. CCA 74 applies to the OC as it never really moved in the first place, it just appeared so (they have just appointed some-one to receive monies on their behalf in such a technical way even their own staff do not understand)..

 

The CCA does not only apply to the original creditor.

 

186 Agreement with more than one creditor or owner

Where an actual or prospective regulated agreement has two or more creditors or owners, anything required by or under this Act to be done to, or in relation to, or by, the creditor or owner shall be effective if done to, or in relation to, or by, any one of them.

 

I am sure I don't have to also remind people that the CCA also states:

“creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

 

 

 

Assigned back to OC

 

This is the giveaway to it having been Equitable Assignment all along. Remember these debts are bought in full and the legal document covering the legal jargon alone will consist of a vast number of pages. Do you seriously think they go to the same hassle of assigning back one at a time? Easier way to look at it, if you buy a book and decide you do not want it, can you then make the seller buy it back?.

 

I am in the fortunate position of having both correspondence from Cabot and from the OC and the proof in my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) documentation to show that this does in fact happen.

 

 

AC using OC letterhead

 

The paper has come from some-where and I do not mean the bin. It is perfectly legal for the OC to authorise AC to use their letterheaded paper. The OC as “authoriser” is fully responsible to the receiver of such letter irrespective who wrote it or even if in their remit to write it. There may be issues between OC & AC over what has been written but without sight of the contract between those 2 parties, the receiver has no idea whether AC as acted within the limits it as been “authorised” to do.

 

I agree they must have agreement from the OC to use their headed paper. However, this opens a can worms. There are members on here that have had legal proceedings started against them by Cabot. This is in their sole name and the OC is not named as a co-claimant. So if the goodbye letter was written by Cabot on the other banks headed paper as per the LPA 1925 the assignment could only be equitable, this means that they can't actually start proceedings in their own name.

 

Cabot can't pick and chose which parts of the law applies to them.

 

CRA

 

There are guidelines they follow. Why do DCA’s often use £1 CCA fee as a payment towards debt? It extends the time taken to clear your credit file. Say a default was registered 5 years ago then it is due to come off in another year, adding another payment in year 5 suddenly creates another default and consequently it stays another 6 years..

 

A default stays on a credit file for six years, DCA can't reset the clock. It may be that they use the £1 to restart the 6 year period under the statue of limitations. However, as the payment of £1.00 is not an admission of the debt, they can't.

 

When you send £1.00, they don't actually pass this onto the OC, as the OC will give the DCA a copy of the documentation free of charge.

The above comments are based on my own personal opinion.

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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Aktiv, please don't take my response to your OP personally. This is a forum and we may not always like what other people post, but we read the posts and then have the opportunity to respond.

 

People see things differently, this is the beauty of this site. I have learnt so much from the people here. If we all agreed, it wouldn't be so much fun.

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tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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I would strongly advise, everyone dealing with cabot to read the following document:

 

www.b-mag.org.uk/memos/Cascading%20Memo%2032.doc

 

Take a look at their website B-MAG - Home they know their stuff

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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You can certainly email and ask him.... I did a couple of months ago...

 

 

I won't post his email address here, but you can find it on their website

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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1) All sales must be conducted under the Law & Property Act (ie nothing whatsoever to do with CCA 74)

 

No, no, no. RS said that the LOP was just the mechanism by which the transaction is assigned. The CCA still applies.

You also said something about these contracts existing somewhere. They don't. There are people right across CAG dealing with different DCAs, different credit card providers and banks and it seems something like 90% of them have the same problem the OC is stumping up a copy of the application form (and this has been debated many times and confirmed by the highest legal sources) but an application form is not a true copy of the executed agreement. Hence many companies have actually been operating accounts unlawfully/ illegally and stand to have to refund all interest charged for the lifetime of the account and the even greater issue of having illegally processed personal data and on this latter point the Information Commissioners Office is getting very, very annoyed indeed.

I must also observe that this assignment talk was first raised by the Cabot raider (and you can call me a cynic for I am) but I think it's been planted as a red herring to divert the Caboteers from the issues mainly facing their cases that the contracts don't exist. And what the feck is an hello and goodbye letter? Jeesus. A myriad of Cabot companies have been used to confuse the consumer - deliberately in my view and they are also guilty of abusing the court system by bringing cases they cannot justify. I have read some of their claims and defences and they are skating on very thin ice and have been getting away with it until recently.

And the real biggie is illegal data processing without the data subject's explicit written permission (not given in perpetuity by signing an application form) and the rather wonderful prospect of Cabot and their ilk doing a stretch or losing their CCA Licence (or preferably both).

This comes down to a very simple principle, no executed agreement, unenforceable and no data sharing.

And before I leave for the night why does Cabot have a CCA licence if they don't need one ? Total and utter bollix chaps. Keep it coming Activ we just love a great debate.

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Tbern, looking at your own case, which is cheaper, paying the compensation you asked for, or losing it in court (travel costs, solicitors costs, court fees, your other costs on top of the compensation)? Whichever they chose to do, it would surely open the floodgates for even more claims so being a profit making institution they are going for the cheapest & least damaging.

 

This is the thing...

 

Either way it is going to cost them money.

 

They do have a 3rd option though

 

Settle this claim and the amount I have indicated that my second claim will be for and I would happily sign a confidentiality agreement and never tell a soul..

 

But, if they want to play. I'll play and I am having so much fun :p

Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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(and you can call me a cynic for I am).

 

Ok if your gonna twist my arm behind my back

 

 

Rhia, you are cynic lol

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Remember if you find anything I say helpful, please click the scales

 

 

tbern123 vs Cabot

  1. Cabot again !!! Urgent Help Needed
  2. Litigation - tbern123 V Cabot Financial (Uk) Limited
  3. No more calls from Cabot... lol

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Thanks for the B-Mag doc Tbern. That leaves me prepared for court next week with 4 aces in my hand. 1 up my sleeve another in my sock and it's my turn to deal.

He didn't come looking for trouble, but trouble came looking for him.

When the smoke clears, it just means he's reloading.

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