CCA's and Dave against the world !!!

[Josie8]

Hi ncf355

 

I'm not 100% sure myself but was told that to be a fact.....however knowing courts I would imagine it could be true.

 

what are you up to ?

 

Dave

 

 

I think if you agree then its ok. However if you dispute the documents validity then I think the court will have to order production of the original.

[Josie8]

Just thought I'd pop in again...........NO news from MS as yet, MBNA have been reported to the Information Commissioners Office, AMEX is very quiet, and the F******* TV licensing people are driving me mad.

 

WHERE does it say in ANY legislation that you HAVE to have a TV set....or if you do have one you have to have it plugged in or that you even have to watch it. There was a gap between renewing my latest licence and the last one. NONE of their business. They have now re-adjusted my licence to continue from the last one. I THINK NOT!!! they have already gained two weeks by conveniently starting it from the begining of the month.

 

Well I'm not playing ball, they will have a fight on their hands:)

 

Dave

 

It doesn't........I'd quote the Harrassment Act at them etc.............

[Josie8]

Personally, i would always try to encourage them to bring me to court rather than start the claim myself. But maybe i am cheap (also, there is the entire balance of probabilities thing... ).

 

A letter such as

 

"Dear Mr X,

 

RE: Account no XXX.

 

 

Please note that i do not accept that I owe your organisation any money whatsoever.

 

I am unwilling to enter into any further corrispondance with you on this matter.

 

If you wish to take this matter further, I suggest you issue a court claim immediatly.

 

Yours Sincerly,

 

XXX.

 

 

I agree with Tomterms views on this.......................

[Josie8]

Yeah... the thing is, if the PPI was a compulsory requirement of the loan, then it must be part of the total cost of credit of the loan... if you see what I mean.

 

If not, then they would have to explain why the PPI was included in the credit agreement without an option NOT to accept it.

 

PPI cannot be made a compulsory part of taking out a loan. If it is then the whole agreement is void.

[Josie8]

The short answer to this is to tell the DCAs that the application form is not a true copy of the agreement and that as such the debt is unenforceable. If they rely on the 1983 loophole then they will need to have the original for any proposed court case. So if they intend taking you to court they would be obliged to produce a copy for you to examine prior to you meeting a judge.

 

Im sure some of the legall eagles on here can confirm things more clearly. You are after all making your request under the CCA. Not the1983 act. So in my opinion this defence would be a red herring as they are not complying with the CCA

 

 

It has to be a true copy of the actual agreement. Therefore if you completed it your handwriting will be on it.

 

Have they added any interest charges while you were waiting for the CCA - were they in default?

 

If so write back, and say that you are giving them 14 days notice to refund the interest unlawfully added and that as they are not prepared to give you trueas you are intending to commence court proceddings you require sight of the original agreement in order to comply with CPR rules 31.6

[Josie8]

If they try and produce it in court on the day then they will have to explain to court why it ewasn't produce re your CCA request. They face a fine of £2500 for the offence and you will most certainly not have costs awarded against you.

[Josie8]

hi dave. great stuff this whole thread. just would like your thoughts on an issue. its dead straightforward. if a loan company cannot supply copy of original agreement t&c included, then is the debt unenforceable? i took out a loan in 1994 for £4000, company was taken over by paragon personal finance i have so far paid back approx £7500. i have been on reduced payments for many years. if they cant supply a valid loan agreement form doesnt the fact that i have been paying prove something? im just so fed up of paying them, they still say i owe them nearly £3000, this will go on for ever and ever, i dont think they will have the loan agreement form. your thoughts please. good luck with all your battles.

 

 

No CCA = No enforcement of debt. Wislon v Sec of State of Trade & Industry 2005 = Creditor cannot sidestep CCA and has lost any monies owing unless you want to voluntarily pay them.

 

You can initiate a claim for refund of all interest you have paid and any defaults or late payments to be expunged from your cra

[Josie8]

Actually no DCA's involved here, creditors are Capital One, Monument, Lloyds TSB and NatWest Card Centre and Solution Finance (all credit cards).

 

OK So my defence would be they failed to respond to my CCa request but did they? I mean, what they sent me was, in my opinion not a Correctly executed agreement but then under the consumer credit regulations 1983 aformentioned all they need do is provide a true copy which can omit the info. What i am worried about is if sometime down the line after i have filed my claim they claim that 'after yet more rigorous attempts at locating yor agreement we have now found it' then what, i will loose the case, run the risk of having to pay costs and more than likely have a CCj then threatened against me. I know its unlilely thay they have the correct agreement but not impossible.

 

 

You tell them in your LBA before initiating court action that as part of disclosure under CPR 31.6 you require a copy of your original agreement. However if they have produced ana greement if you accept that as the true copy then that is all they can produce to court under Ithink s. 172 (4) CCA

 

Actually i wasn't aware there was a financial penlalty for them not complying to my CCa request if lapsed over 30 days. i know they commit a crim offence after this time; i read somewhere that it may be possible to actually send them a default notice if they do this, is this possible? also, in regards to them commiting a criminal offence does this apply to the 'true copy' or the correctly executed agreement containing BOTH signaturs? if the latter then i think i could use it, if not then surely by supplying me what they deem to be a 'true copy' even though we know it to be simply an application form they are within the law under the consumer credit regulations 1983?

 

 

DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ***********************

 

I wrote to you by Special Delivery/Recorded Delivery ( Ref ***********) on ********, 2007 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing the statutory payment of £1.00. This letter was delivered and signed for on ***** , 2007.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on *******, 2007. If the request is not satisfied after a further calendar month, your company commits an offence. Therefore on *******, 2007 this time limit will expired.

 

I have still neither received a copy of the agreement as required by S78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any other information relating to same. As such, this account has become unenforceable by law. As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

As such, now that the 12 working days have expired (from your receipt of the request for the agreement and supporting documents) the account is now in dispute. Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (*******, 2007)

 

Should you nevertheless choose to initiate legal proceedings against me, I will expect to receive, with any Letter before Action, a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA was signed by myself in respect of this alleged debt.

 

As an offence of this nature may have an impact on your ability to hold a credit licence, it is important that you give this letter your immediate and prompt attention.

 

Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 1998

 

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (S. 10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

 

I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

Mr ************

[Josie8]

thank you for that. i was also wondering if they do supply cca and the interest charges are huge do i have a chance of simply writing to the loan company and telling them that i consider that having paid more than £3500 in interest as well as paying back the original sum of £4000, that i believe i have paid more than enough back and a further £3000 to pay is totally unacceptable to me and therefore refuse any further payments until a court decides what a fair amount is. or am i being naive?:-?

 

From figures you have supplied the interest rate would seem to be high. What interest rate are they charging ? If its excessive the court has the power to either reduce or stop further interest.

[Josie8]

OK.....

 

Ive got the judgement for the monument charges as previously said..........but no cheque. The cheque had been promised in 48 hours, that was last week sometime

 

Just emailed them yesterday threatening all sorts of bad things, and expected a response (foolish really)

 

No response

 

So I will wait until tommorrrow and then send the bailiffs in

 

should be fun

 

Why not wait the full 28 days and then send in the baliffs and have the pleasure of giving them a permanent county court judgement on their credit history which will affect their CRA rating..............for the next 6 years? :D

 

Dave

 

Why not wait the full 28 days and then send in the baliffs and have the pleasure of giving them a permanent county court judgement on their credit history which will affect their CRA rating..............for the next 6 years? :D

[Josie8]

Why not do both?? CCJ first then statutory demand..................

[Josie8]

ditto:D

[Josie8]

Well done Dave the POC is v good.

 

As to reclaiming monies paid it is a gamble as PT says because of the threat of multi track - but it was an equally big gamble for Penelope Wilson and boy did she win....................... :D