A+L Card Debt sold to LINK

[The Phantom]

Hi

 

have had an A&L Credit Card for many moons and just decided to claim all those late payment charges back

I have sent them a SAR with £10.- end of December recorded delivery. They received this 02.01.07 but so far no reply

How long does it take MBNA on average to reply to SAR, wondering whether a chaser is on the cards soon

[The Phantom]

Yeah, it is just that Mint Credit Card replied within 1 week and had the statements with me within 2 weeks, so I was just wondering whether other people also thought Alliance & leicester CC was generally slow to respond to these.

But you are of course correct to say they have 40 days in which to respond

[The Phantom]

 

Have sent SAR to A&L Credit Card (account riddled with charges) end of December last year, 40 days are up on Monday 12.02. with no reply whatsoever

Will then send the LBA for SAR non compliance on Tuesday. If still no reply after the next 7 days I will probably have to go down the N1 route through the courts

Have however received this months statement through the post with small note on the bottom stating the account is being prepared to be sold to a third party.

When that happens, what do I have to do then ? Do I have to change everything to the purchaser of the debt or still MBNA ?

Also if the purchaser contacts me initially, is it woth to CCA them and see if they can come up with a true signed agreement to start with as I had the CC with A&L for probably 11 or 12 years and it may be interesting to test if they can find the agreement ?

[The Phantom]

I have just printed off the SAR non compliance letter giving them 7 more days

May also just send them a CCA request for a copy of the original agreement

They have stated in their latest letter that they may legally assign the debt to a third party and I will no longer be a customer of MBNA then. Hmmm

Strange, I never officially knew I was in the first place , as I originally took out a Credit Card with A&L,not MBNA

I was never informed they were taken over by MBNA

May not be relevant, but I thought they had to tell you ?

[The Phantom]

As they are not actually threatening any court action at this time , only indicating they may sell the debt, I may wait until I hear from the purchaser and CCA them as the debt collecting agencies are usually more aggressive in their approach.

It may be a nice ace up the sleeve for that time (well at least until 2008 when the CCA changes in favour of the creditor, but I may still hold on a short while with the CCA and just wait for the DCA to contact me)

May only pursue the SAR for the time being

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole,

 

Could you expand on the bit above that says the CCA changes in favour of the creditor in 2008? I haven't come across that before and it may need to be shouted out a bit?! Thanks!

 

Yes, it was posted by member zootscoot, the CCA ist changing in April this year but apparently this change will affect only new agreements initially (taken out after April 07), but all agreements from 2008 onwards.

 

Have a read here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/25668-curious-twist-two-cca.html

read first page to about post 16

 

And also

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/65019-cca-amendment-2006-7-a.html

 

When saying"in favour of creditor" I mean they do not necessarily have to have the original true signed copy of an agreement anymore to enforce a debt in court . At the moment they need it - without it - no debt - no enforcement. Under new law this apparently changes

8-)

[The Phantom]

Just a thought, but did you send everything by recorded delivery?

 

Of course - all correspondence has always been sent recorded

Have today lodged complaint to Information Commissioner via Website, LBA for non compliance to be posted tomorrow 1st class recorded

I am contemplating to servce them with s85 as discussed in Battleaxe's thread in the forum

but still trying to find out a bit more. Don't want to hijack her thread though by jumping in asking dumb questions there

[The Phantom]

Hi

 

decided to start a fresh thread as I am now at the beginning of a nice battle with MBNA (well A&L CC which are now MBNA)

Have had a A&L Credit Card for many, many years , the balance on this one shot through the roof due to some serious financial problems my husband had. He made in desperation a balance transfer from one of his credit cards to mine and has since declared himself bankrupt. Now I am the proud owner of part of his debts. There are about 6 K on this card, and many many charges regarding over the limit fees and late payment fees ( On my net part time income of £500.- with two children I was unable to meet their required monthly payments of over £300.-)

I have tried to communicate with MBNA in writing, but they do not tend to reply to what you have written but send pre-printed , unrelated nastygrams by the lorry load.

I have made a S.A.R which they totally ignored (no reply ever received. Deadline of 40 days expired in mid February, 7 day LBA sent afterwards but again no reply. Information Commissioner has had a complaint and has written to me to say they will include me in their mass complaint against MBNA at the end of February....) Nothing else so far on this

 

I have sent them a s85 default notice for good measure a while ago, again with no reply and also a CCA asking to see the original agreement. (Template letter and fee sent) The first 12 day deadline has come and gone with no reaction from them.

Have received instead a letter from them today stating that they will sell the debt by the end of the month unless I pay them £XXXX immediately

 

So where do I go from here, they do not react to any communication (all my letters were sent recorded and have been received) but just fire out their little nastygrams. Can they legally sell the debt despite being in breach of the SAR and in default regarding the CCA s 77/78 (and potentially s85) ?

 

If I do not hear from them but from a debt collection agency next, what should I do ?

 

I know there are some dedicated MBNA enemies here, so any ideas from the CAG MBNA forum think tank would be most welcome

[The Phantom]

Hello and thanks for the first replies from the think tank !

I have changed my telephone number a while ago and A&L / MBNA does not have the new one, therefore they are unable to phone me, which appears to be a blessing reading some of the other posts and threads.

I don't really want to phone them, as I prefer to put everything in writing, I always think they can tell me anything on the phone and then just don't follow it up either, I am a believer in good old fashioned papertrails as the contents are difficult to dispute unlike a telephone call. I am also worried they may have a caller number display and then get my new number.

To give you a bit more information : I had an identical letter to this one approx 3 or 4 weeks ago on MBNA letterhead which triggered my s85 default notice and CCA request to MBNA - I explained to them then that I consider this debt in dispute and advised them not to sell it due to this fact and also not to continue to charge me any late payment fees as I intend to reclaim them anyway once they comply with my SAR (either voluntarily or by force)

Well, as said above - no reply whatsoever until I got the letter today which is identical apart from the fact it is now on A&L letterhead and a different name is printed below as a signature.

I guess I will reply to this letter with a copy of my previous one to MBNA to ease my workload a bit and post it tomorrow. I don't expect a reply to this one either.

It is so bizarre, you think they would at least try to enter into a meaningful dialogue ? I tried to negotiate at some point in the past reduced payments which also fell somewhat on deaf ears, so I decided myself on a small amount I can afford and pay that every month, I mean what else can you do if they don't answer ? ? But as the 12 day deadline for the CCA is up now I will now stop those payments as well until they show the agreement.

[The Phantom]

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole, it sounds to me like MBNA have passed you back to A&L because they can't provide your agreement.

Aaahh ! Now there is a thought - that could be of course ! Makes you want to ask them - hey, make up your mind who has ownership of this debt .

 

You are of course correct to suggest to dial 141, but I am too much into the writing bit now. I have built up a massive paper trail with really no valid response to any of my letters from them.

I am doing all of this in preparation of a potential attempt by either A&L/MBNA or a subsequent assignor to CCJ me.

I am already building up for a potential defence. That's why at the moment I am not too concerned about their SAR non compliance, I will use that as part of a defence and potential counterclaim at the time, which is always useful as it alleges the claimed amount is wrong due to the unlawful charges.

The only thing is the invlovement of a third party assignor would complicate matters at this stage as I would have to start talking / writing to three companies (A&L, MBNA, Debt Collector) and that would really do my head in

[The Phantom]

Latest on my thread: received a letter from A&L/MBNA today with a list of all charges that were debited to my account over the years. The total comes to just under £400.-

I believe this is their reply to my SAR, but I can't be sure as their letter states they don't agree with the OFT that their charges are unfair and blah blah blah, not that it is their reply to my S.A.R. which requested information spanning my banking history with them (which of course it isn't)

(Anyway, I just take it as their reply to my SAR to make things easy at this stage)

In their letter they also say they have credited £75.- back to my account as a good will offer only and this concludes the matter for them (well, not for me it doesn't... ) as my account is in arrears it will be sold as bad debt to an assignor shortly

 

Still no reference to my CCA request (12 + 30 is up in early April) or to my default notice ref s 85

They did receive my request under the CCA as they have credited the £1.- fee to my account !

 

I will now:

 

-advise them that I will pursue the balance of the charges, as £75.- is considered part payment only (and only if it does show up on my next statement as a credit !)

 

- cease any payments until they produce the agreement and rectify the default caused by s85 non compliance

 

If I hit rocky waters I will ask for help and report any news as well

[The Phantom]

Hi Cornucopia

 

I have told them in about three letters that they are in default and advised them not to sell the account, but no reaction

The 12 + 30 are up on 5th of April and I intend to report the offence should it come to that. Any ideas where I can report this offence ? (Police ? TS ? )

 

What they sent me yesterday was a letter (quite a long one) signed by Joanne Johnson explaining how incredibly fair their charges are because of the "substantial costs" they incur everytime one of their customers defaults on a payment. They say I agreed to these charges and they expect me to honour these agreed terms and conditions, because if I don't they will terminate the agreement and cancel my card (funny, as they have done that already as it is a bad debt, so I am really scared now) Then she bla blahs on that as a good will gesture they will credit £75 back to my account but due to the bad arrears I need to make another immediate payment of £XXX to prevent this being registered with a credit reference agency (they have already defaulted me anyway so I am shaking in my shoes....boo hoo) They trust this meets my expectations and if they don't hear from me again within eight weeks they will close the matter

Attached was a brief print out with charges scattered over the years 2002 -2006. The total coming to just under £300.- not £400.- as stated incorrectly in my post above. I have had this card since the mid 1990s so there may well be more charges that are not shown on this print out

 

I sent them a letter back advising them I require the full amount refunded or I will start legal proceedings during which they can demonstrate their substatial costs they incurred to a judge.

I also said as they did not comply with my SAR I reserve the right to make further claims should I discover that they did not disclose all charges levied.

I gave them 14 days in which to refund before proceedings would start

 

That was posted today - they should have it on Monday

 

I am still waiting for a reply regarding my CCA, I advised them in separate letters that I will not making any further payments until they have rectified the defaults caused by the relevant sections under the CCA. To those letters I have not had a response.

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole, the fact is they probably can't provide your agreement, you might get an application form but we'll have to wait and see......

 

Yes, I will have to wait a little longer until April 5th to see if they produce something and if yes, we need to check it is a true executed agreement

I think MBNA / A&L had problems with that before with some members here, so I will have to wait and see what they come up with (if anything)

[The Phantom]

Have today received their "official SAR reply" (months overdue)

It is the same print out with charges they sent me the other day with a letter stating they didn't treat my request as an official SAR request and have therefore not cashed my cheque at the time. If I want to make a SAR request I shall them them a request indicating what information I require , include my payment and a photo ID and send it to them and they will reply within 40 days...? Are they taking the mickey ?

They have included a form they have prepared where you can tick what information you want. Interestingly there is a box you can tick to get a copy of your initial "Application" (not agreement)

As they have still not replied to my CCA request I am more and more intrigued to see what they send me in reply to that. By the looks of it all they have kept is the application ? How neat.

[The Phantom]

I will join the mass complaint, it has to be in by 31.03 ? I must rush it then

Hi, Corn , no you didn't ask me before, so will check out the relevant thread and see what I need to do.

[The Phantom]

Does anybody know the answer to this one, by the way ?

Once the 12 & 30 days for producing the agreement are up

and if they do not provide it, I will take further steps like report them to Trading STandards for their offence, ask for consolidation etc etc

And once that is all settled, can they then wait until 2008 when this section of the CCa is repelled completely and then pursue us all again ? May this all be in vain when the Act changes next year ?

I was told (and I assume this is correct) that the CCA changes in April this year affecting all new Credit Agreements and as from 2008 all agreements will be affected by the changes. So is this a potential pit fall ? Or did I misunderstand something ?

[The Phantom]

Don't worry about hijacking, it is all the same subject reallly, isn't it.

So I don't mind

Have just PM'd Battleaxe, I hope I can compile it in time

[The Phantom]

Baconbutty Man ?? I'll check it out straight away ! This question has been puzzling me for a while now !!

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole99 - sorry for hijacking but just wanted to say I'm watching with great interest as I too have had an A&L/MBNA card since about 92 and I'm still waiting on my CCA which was sent on 1st March. Like m.willows I'm saving the S85 for last and I've also told me Dad about it and he reckons he's had his A&L/MBNA card for about 30 years!! His CCA went in post last night!

 

It is always worth doing it I think. By reading other peoples posts and threads it appears MBNA is getting under more and more pressure it takes them longer and longer to provide documents

I have still not received anything from them in reply to my CCA request.

Roll on 5th of April !

[The Phantom]

OK, still no agreement. MBNA has committed an offence now

Have phoned Trading Standards who have passed this to the local TS responsible for MBNA (I suppose this is Chester)

I have also stopped payments

I guess I now have to wait and see what happens next

[The Phantom]

It is interesting, because when I talked to the TS here in sunny Devon they asked where I got my advice from as it was all so far down the line already and I had done so much already. She said they usually just tell people to do what I had already done and then the problem resolves itself as the creditors normally comply. She said "we have never been down this route so far" and she had to talk to her supervisor and call me back. (Rural Devon, eh ?)

She did a while later and said they would have to pass this to the relevant TS for MBNA (I suppose Chester ?). But the person there handling MBNA complaints was on holiday until 12.04. so she would call her then and I would hear back from TS sometime after that date.

So maybe it is TS Chester who is refusing to act ? I will have to wait until they contact me again to find out, but if they refuse to act then of course I will join any complaint !!

I will update again at the time

[The Phantom]

In that case I can't actually say that this was the case today

The lady was quite interested and promised to follow it up with the other TS in (Chester ?) when that person is back from holiday and promised me a follow-up. She did acknowledge that the actions were indeed in breach of the CCA and that the creditor had now made the agreement unenforceable.

But I think I am now at the mercy of MBNA's local TS and have to wait a little longer to hear back

[The Phantom]

Will do, should hoepfully be next week

[The Phantom]

Had a phone call from my local TS, they had a reply from Chester TS

Chester TS wants to know why I wanted to see a copy of the agreement in the first place anyway, so I said that's because the whole debt is in dispute

So apparently all TS Chester would consider doing in this case is phone MBNA on my behalf and ask them why they didn't send the agreement to me, but to do that they would need my authority , otherwise MBNA wouldn't have to discuss the issue with TS (?)

How pathetic is that. For me the matter is closed really, I have informed MBNA that I have stopped payments as they are in breach of the CCA 77/78 and have informed Trading Standards of this breach of the Act

I don't really care now why they didn't send the agreement and I think TS should follow this up as a general breach of the law and not just why they didn't boher to send me the agreement. (TS:"Oh, may I just ask why you didn't send Ms Owe-a-Lot a copy of the agreement ?" MBNA:"That's simply because we are MBNA, above the law and don't really care about you, the law or anybody else really either" TS: "Oh, that explains it then, many thanks, we will pass this on and close the case")