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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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I'm sure my wife has been mis-sold PPI


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Im sure that this has probably been asked several times but im sure that weve been done over with this PPI.

 

Im currently claiming back bank charges but thought I woulod have a look at this section while i was browsing around the site.

 

My wife took out an unsercured loan a few years ago for £17k with the PPi added it totaled £21k+. I went along with my wife to agree the loan and at the time we were told we could only have the loan if we took out the loan protection because it was such a large amount. We didnt argue (or know ant different for that matter) as we needed the loan.

 

after a few years my wife got made redundant she was also pregnant they paid out redundancy and maternaty pay. this was in the Feb we did not try to claim on the PPI until the July, as this was when she wouldve returned to work.

 

We were told by the bank that we could not claim until Sept again we tried then but to no avail.

 

My wife started a new job in the Oct so we decided not to bother claiming back while she wasnt working and that we would just cancel the insurance as the PPI alone was £56 per month.

 

When we phoned to cancel she was told that she can not cancel it as she had a "30 day cooling off period" at the start of her loan to cancel it and now she has to pay it for the life of the loan.This was 2 years ago now.

 

We know the name of the individual who (mis)sold us the loan but obviously we have no wriiten proof of this and the individual has left the company.

 

sorry to go on a bit but after reading some info and some posts it seems that we have been screwed. Any ideas or advice on what we could do next, if anything.

 

thanks.matt

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Hi,

 

Can you elaborate a bit please so we can try and help. Which bank was this? Was the premium added to the loan to give a new total? Did the sales person go through the terms and conditions with you and explain their implications? Were you actually told at the time that you had a 30 day cooling off period or were you expected to find this out yourself from the documentation?

 

Sorry for all the questions but reclaiming PPI is not as straightforward as unlawful charges. The answers to the questions will determine the best way to go ahead. Getting a refund can be done - I've done it three times now but be prepared for a battle.

 

Keith

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hi keith, thanks for your speedy reply.

 

the bank in question is lloyds and yes the premium was added to the loan to give a new total.

 

The sales person went through the t&c's and no as far as I remember we were not told about the 30 day period. It was basically yes you can have the loan but MUST have the insurance. like i said we agreed because we needed the loan and tyhen the guy put the papers in front of my wife and she signed.

 

I appreciate that it is not as straightforward as bank charges as like i said we have no written proof.

 

From what I have read Im sure we shouldve been able to cancel the policy when she requsted.

 

once again thanks for taking the time to look and reply keith it is appreciated as i have no idea whatsoever where we stand.

 

TBH i think we would be happy if we could just cancel the remainder of the insurance as £56 on top of our payments each month is alot as with this our payments are £335+

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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OK - I'm not an expert and have no legal training but here's what I suggest. Firstly PPI cannot be made a condition of granting a loan. The Bank is quite within its rights to refuse a loan if a client has no means of repaying it if anything unfortunate should occur BUT it cannot insist on you taking out its own PPI. I would write to the Bank insisting that you were mis-sold the policy for these reasons and you require a refund of premiums and interest. Be prepared for delaying tactics but keep going until you get a Final Reponse. Don't worry about the T & C's and any cooling off period at this stage

 

In the meantime prepare to take your case to the FSO which you can do when you have your final letter. You could of course go to the Small Claims Court but there will be an initial outlay of cash and you will have to prepare a legal case with all the precedents etc etc. Not many people seem to have risked this. You can still go to court if you fail with the FSO but not the other way round.

 

The FSO will decide your case on documentary evidence so your written complaint is important and must try tp pre-empt anything the Bank will produce. You can help yourself by being as "professional" as you can - this does not mean in the legal sense but that you know what you are doing. Try to remember as much as you can about the original interview - where and when did it take place, why and with whom - an outline discussion (don't include any talk about T & C's - you'll see why later). Photocopy any documents / letters you have to and from the Bank. Label them and produce an index so you can refer to them in your written complaint.

 

The way at which the FSO will look at your complaint will differ slightly according to the date the policy was sold to you as the rules changed in Jauary 2005 ( I think)

 

I know of several instances where the FSO have ignored the T & C's cooling off period - I won't explain further here in case of snooping eyes but can PM you later if needed.

 

The Bank will also have to provide written evidence including a report from the person who originally sold you the policy - assuming they can track him down If they do his memory is likely to be hazy (he probably sold hundreds of policies) which is why your recollections of the meeting have to come across in the best possible light. If they can't track down the salesman they will have to produce a copy of any notes of your meeting they may have on their system - again they are not likely to be comprehensive. Certainly I have seen several FSO adjudications where this has been the case.

 

Once you are ready to deal with the FSO post a copy of your written complaint as there are loads of people here who will their eye over it for you.

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Keith, thanks once again for your help with this like I said before it is very much appreciated. we will certainly look into this and contact the bank.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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  • 10 months later...

Right I started this thread nearly 12 months ago but I never got round to doing anything about it until recently.

 

I wrote to lloyds on 16th Jan 08 and requested a complete refund as we were missold the policy, I also included the part that we tried to cancel the policy but we were told that we werent able to cancel. I then searched about for information and found out that the FSA have found these terms are unfair.

 

Lloyds have sent me their final response today, they wont agree that the poilcy was missold but have agreed to refund me since Dec 05 (when we tried to cancel the poilcy).

 

The amount is over £2100 which we are happy with but they have said that this payment if we accept the offer will be paid off the loan. We would prefer the cash was paid into our current account.

 

 

 

Can we demand that it is paid into our current account?? and Is it best to accept this offer and the fact they have said they do not beleive we were missold the policy. If we were to get a complete refund it would be from June 04 rather than Dec 05.

 

We are not greedy and would be pleased to get this money back. :D

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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I sent the acceptance back to lloyds and crossed out the part which said it had to paid back off the loan. I wrote and explained that I wanted the payment to go back to my current lloyds account as this is where the money was taken from.

 

I received a reply from them today which says they can only make refunds to the loan account if the loan is still open, which it is.

 

Is this right?? surely if they owe me the money it is my choice what account it should be paid into and how I spend it.

 

Can anyone tell me if lloyds are right in what they are saying.

 

Thanks

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Hi can anyone tell me if lloyds are right and they can only refund to the loan account.

 

I have wrote a letter saying I do not want it paid off the loan but back to the current account but I dont want to risk losing the money altogether.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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I have drafted this letter, could someone please tell me if this is acceptable.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Dear xxxxxxx xxxxxxx or whom this may concern,

Thank you once again for your very prompt reply to my letter, it is very much appreciated. I do accept your settlement offer £2,143.44 plus interest accrued as a result of this amount on a ex-gratia basis. I also agree that this will be full and final settlement of my complaint. However I do not agree that this is to be refunded to my loan account.

I require that this is refunded to my current Lloyds TSB bank account. The account number is xxxxxxxx and my sort code is xx-xx-xx. I can see no reason whatsoever why the refund can not be made to this account as this was the account that the money was taken from. I can assure you that if the insurance was cancelled back in December 2005 I would not have continued to make overpayments on the loan but would have looked at reducing the monthly repayments. Therefore this money would have never have left my current account. I will also accept a cheque made out to me.

If you will not credit my current account, or will not send me a cheque for the settlement would you please be kind enough to state the reasons and any legal reasons, if there are any, why you are unwilling to do this so I can use these as evidence should I need to forward my complaint either to the Financial Ombudsman or even the county court.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxx xxxxx.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Hi guys,

 

Can anyone tell me if the above letter is ok and im right that they dont have to pay it off the loan but could play it into my current account.

 

I really want to get this posted tomorrow am. any help would be grateful, thanks

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

Can anyone tell me if the above letter is ok and im right that they dont have to pay it off the loan but could play it into my current account.

 

I really want to get this posted tomorrow am. any help would be grateful, thanks

 

Hello Matty,

 

Just found your thread, was a terrible shame as you seem to have been left taking to yourself:confused: .

 

Personally I think that you are selling yourself a bit short and I would be determined to reclaim back the whole lot plus interest. But it is your call at the end of the day.

 

If you are happy with their offer:mad: write to them and tell them that you will only accept the money as a cheque payable to yourself, for you to do with whatever you wish. If they do not agree, you will pursue the whole god damn amount via the courts or the fos.

 

This is money that they never should have taken, and all they are doing is a paper execise, they took it from you and are giving it back to themselves.

 

They make me so angry:mad: they are still dictating to you about your money, I retract my statements at the beginning of the post. Get yourself mad and go after the whole amount and interest. If they won't play fair, neither should you.

 

Sorry rant over:D

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If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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Hi HHNF, and thanks for the reply,

 

I bit the bullet and sent the above letter in post #9 this morning as we want to get this sorted. Hopefully we should get a reply from them pretty soon as so far they have responed quite quickly.

 

I'm not too sure what the total amount is that they have had from us to be honest, we worked it out at just over £2400 so we are not too much short.

 

If they fail to settle either by direct payment to my account or by cheque I think I am going to take your advice and push for the rest.

 

Thanks for takingthe time to look at my thread and post a reply and stop getting so angry and calm down. :)

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Hi HHNF, and thanks for the reply,

 

I bit the bullet and sent the above letter in post #9 this morning as we want to get this sorted. Hopefully we should get a reply from them pretty soon as so far they have responed quite quickly.

 

I'm not too sure what the total amount is that they have had from us to be honest, we worked it out at just over £2400 so we are not too much short.

 

If they fail to settle either by direct payment to my account or by cheque I think I am going to take your advice and push for the rest.

 

Thanks for takingthe time to look at my thread and post a reply and stop getting so angry and calm down.

 

Hello Matty,

 

Ok have taken your advice and taken some time to chill out:D

 

Sorry I cannot stand injustice and they do make me angrey because they get away with :-x Why do you think I call myself HHNF:D I am on a mission truely;) to continue my education and educate others

 

Many thanks for the click of the scales, you are more than welcome. Going back in my box now.:lol:

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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Just a quick update. They have had my letter for 7 days now and they haven't replied. Last time it took them 2 days to say they would only pay it into the loan account.

 

I am sending them another letter tomorrow asking for a cheque within 7 days or to give me reasons why they wont refund by cheque. Just a gentle reminder letter.

 

Hopefully this can get sorted within the week.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I work for a BBC1 consumer affairs programme called "Don't Get Done, Get Dom", in which presenter Dominic Littlewood attempts to resolve issues that have arisen between consumers and companies.

 

Having read your story, we would be extremely keen to hear from you to see if there is anything we might be able to do to help.

 

If you would like to talk to us, please get in touch at:

 

[email protected]

02072785052

 

Thanks very much,

 

Robert Gershinson

Don’t Get Done, Get Dom (BBC1)

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Received a reply from lloyds today in response to post #9.

 

Can anyone confirm what they are saying.

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter received with reference to your refund on your personal loan protection payment policy.

 

As the premium for your policy was initially borrowed from the bank, we always credit any refund back to the loan account. I have enclosed a copy of your credit agreement that confirms this, highlighting the relevant sections.

 

To confirm to accept my offer you will need to return the acceptance slip enclosed with my letter dated 11th Feb 2008. I enclose a further acceptance slip for your convenience.

 

Without this slip I am unable to offer a fair and reasonable resolution to your concerns.

 

I will close my file if I do not hear from you within the next 7 days. It will, nevertheless, be reopened if the information is subsequently received.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

 

The money was taken from my current account surely I should be able to have it refunded there.???

 

They enclosed a copy of the credit agreement with the amount highlighted what is the use of this??

 

Is it off to the FOS now or do they have the right to refund it to the loan account????

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Share on other sites

Received a reply from lloyds today in response to post #9.

 

Can anyone confirm what they are saying.

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter received with reference to your refund on your personal loan protection payment policy.

 

As the premium for your policy was initially borrowed from the bank, we always credit any refund back to the loan account. I have enclosed a copy of your credit agreement that confirms this, highlighting the relevant sections.

 

To confirm to accept my offer you will need to return the acceptance slip enclosed with my letter dated 11th Feb 2008. I enclose a further acceptance slip for your convenience.

 

Without this slip I am unable to offer a fair and reasonable resolution to your concerns.

 

I will close my file if I do not hear from you within the next 7 days. It will, nevertheless, be reopened if the information is subsequently received.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

 

The money was taken from my current account surely I should be able to have it refunded there.???

 

They enclosed a copy of the credit agreement with the amount highlighted what is the use of this??

 

Is it off to the FOS now or do they have the right to refund it to the loan account????

Hello Matty,

 

Have just re-read your thread, now can you see why people get so angrey with them:grin:

 

The general rule of thumb would be for example, If you just cancelled the ppi on its own. They would refunded the unpaid ppi and interest portion into the owing balance of the loan, therefore reducing the balance and the amount you owe, because this portion of ppi and ppi interest was still owing, so therefore you had not paid for it.

 

If you have paid them for the ppi, plus ppi interest, since december 2005 to now, this is money that you paid them and should be returned to you. with interest. They appear to be extremely unfair regarding this matter.

 

There is something the FSA have produced about the cancelling of ppi, I will see if I can find it.

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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Consumers to benefit from PPI refunds agreement

 

Maybe quote something from this about the principle of treating customers fairly.

 

I personally would still argue with them and ask for a breakdown of how they have calculated the figures. How much you have actually paid in ppi and interest, and how much they are refunding of the unpaid ppi and interest into the balance of the loan:grin:

 

They are regulated by the FSA and have to follow their guidence.

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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  • 1 month later...

OK,

 

Lloyds really didnt budge on this matter, even after their final letter I sent them a further letter telling them I was going to take the complaint to the FOS or even court.

 

They still didnt budge. I printed out a complaint to the FOS but didnt get around to sending it for a few weeks. In that time we decided that if the money was paid off the loan it may not be a bad thing as it would reduce our loan which is over £300 p/m.

 

The money was taken off the loan yesterday. We were not sure excactly how much would come off the loan because the offer was £2143.44 plus interest adjustment. They did not state what the intrest adjustment would be but a total of £3672.15 has been taken off the loan.

 

It would have been nice to have the cash but we are also rerally happy that this amount has been taken off our loan.

 

Thanks to HHNF for your help on this, sorry we did not get any cash but like I said this pays a massive amount off our oustanding balance.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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