maggiemay v YB

[caro]

Hi Maggie - how's it going? We haven't heard from you in a while. Have you managed to find the answers to your questions in the FAQ's? There is a lot of reading to do when you start off but it's worth it. Keep us posted.

[caro]

Ooh I say Zooman. Yorkshire Bank Bank Charges and Yorkshire Bank links. What can you be up to.

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave....;-)

Our unfair bank charges to receive.

[caro]

It might just be worth sending a letter asking for a receipt if you are worried. If it was a cheque it shouldn't be a problem, but I wouldn't be too concerned unless the 40 days expires without hearing anything, but as you handed it over you know the bank has received your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

By the way, I have just merged yet another thread. Please just stick to the one as it is easier to follow your progress and help.

[caro]

No worries.

[caro]

Check out the FAQ's. You need to send a preliminary request for payment and a schedule of charges. You will find the letter and spreadsheet to do this in the bank templates library.

[caro]

Keep up the good work Maggie. I'm afraid you have quite a wait for your money, but that amount is well worth fighting for.

[caro]

Please keep to one thread as it makes it easier to follow your progress. Threads merged.

[caro]

Threads merged.

[caro]

Its up to the court to decide whether or not to allow a stay. You will hear from the court if it is agreed when they look at the AQ's.

[caro]

I have never known them to phone about a claim.

[caro]

If it is about your claim, or anything that you are not comfortable talking about, unless you have recording equipment, I suggest you ask them to put anything they have to say in writing.

 

Unless it was an Edinburgh number I think it will be something else.

[caro]

It is a long drag with this bunch I'm afraid Maggie. You should take the initiative and write to the bank offering to settle, which would make you look very good to the judge (not that you are likely to ever see him or her). I suggest you write and offer to amend your claim by the amount of their actual costs as a result of these breaches. You could point out that a recent documentary showed an ex YB employee had calculated the cost would be no more than 2 pounds and often less for eatch time they had charged for a breach. If they would disclose to you their true costs and how they have arrived at that figure, then you would amend your claim accordingly.

 

I don't think they will do this for one second, but you are offering a compromise and showing your willingness to waste more of the courts time.

[caro]

I'll post something up for you later maggie.

[caro]

Email:

 

 

 

Your Ref:

 

Dear

 

Name v Clydesdale Bank plc t/a Yorkshire Bank

Claim No:

 

Further to the stay for settlement ordered in the above case on (insert date of order) I would like to make every effort to resolve my claim against your client for bank charges which I now believe to be unlawful. I am pleased that you have requested this stay, as it demonstrates your wish to resolve the matter without the need to waste more of the courts time.

 

As I have had no communication from you since receiving the notice of stay I thought that I should contact you. I am sure that you are aware that we only have until (insert appropriate date), and with this in mind I thought it might help to speed up the process, if you are in agreement and the court would find it acceptable, to correspond by email where possible. Please note that my email address may be found just below my postal address.

 

To date the total refund that I am seeking in order to settle this matter is as follows:-

 

 

Item

£

Charges Paid

xxxxx

Data Protection Act fee

10.00

Court Fee

120.00

Allocation Questionnaire Fee

100.00

8% interest as at date of this letter

xxxxx

Total to Date

xxxxx

 

Interest will continue to accrue at the rate of xxp per day until settled. Should we be unable to resolve the matter now, I realise that the section 69 interest is awarded at the courts discretion. The remainder of the claim is simply a reimbursement of monies that I have paid out, either in charges, or as a result of charges. Clearly this figure will increase as time goes on. You will note that I have made no charge for incidentals such as postage, stationery, phone calls etc.

 

In the Data Protection Act letter I asked for disclosure or evidence of any manual intervention, or alternatively, confirmation that there was no such evidence as there had been no manual intervention on my account. As I only received statements, this part of my request was not answered, which I take to mean that all of the charges added to my account had been automated. Should your client now wish to provide evidence of manual interventions on my account I would be pleased to take this into account, although it would clearly have helped to have had this earlier. I would not take the matter of your clients apparent failure to provide full disclosure within the mandatory 40 days further, which I trust will be taken as a gesture of goodwill.

 

I have been through the defence document and listed below the points which need clarification from my point of view. If we can at least settle some of them before the stay ends it will save the court some time and demonstrate that we have followed the Judges order.

 

1. If the Bank made payments from the Account I do not understand how they can have been unauthorised. The act of the Bank paying them implies to me that the payments were authorised. They were clearly able to stop payments if they wished as they did on many occassions.

 

2. Whilst I do not dispute this clause per se, the level of the charges are at the heart of my claim. In order to resolve the issue, I do not believe that any real defence of the charges can be made without disclosure of how the charges were calculated. This would settle many of the points with which I have issue.

 

3. My bank statements and schedule of charges clearly demonstrate that most charges were taken from my account without notice. This made it impossible for me to keep an accurate check on the balance of my account, so my overdraft limit would be exceeded without my knowledge, leading me to think that funds were available to use.

 

4. The action of taking charges on the day on which the unauthorised overdraft was created merely caused the situation to be exacerbated, at my expense and to the benefit of the Bank as a higher rate of interest was imposed on the overdraft once it was beyond the authorised limit,

 

5. Account services are not at issue here so this is irrelevant. The issue is the real cost of charges and whether they constitute a penalty, which in my opinion they do.

 

6. The standard tariffs are not in dispute, and although I do not have any records of them, I believe that these were probably as per the charges imposed on my Account. Although at the time I felt that they were unreasonable and unfair, I was not aware that they were unlawful. As the Bank claims that the contract terms satisfy the requirement of reasonableness under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, it is encumbent on them to show that they are. In my view this can only be done by disclosing how the charges have been calculated.

 

7. The only way to prove that the charges were not disproportionate would be by disclosing how they were calculated.

 

8. Could you please clarify why section 4 of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 has no application in these proceedings.

 

9. The only way to demonstrate adequately why, in your view, the Terms and Conditions were not unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1998, S I 1999 No 2083, would be by disclosing the actual costs to the Bank for each individual charge against my Account.

 

10. I still believe that I am entitled to the relief sought.

 

The recent BBC documentary Whistleblower, in which an ex-Yorkshire Bank employee revealed that the cost of each breach would only ever be a maximum of £2.00 and I would invite you to demonstrate how the charges are calculated if this is not the case.

 

Whilst I am more than willing to resolve this matter within the timescale provided by Judge (insert name on order), I feel that I should warn you that unless it appears that we are making significant progress in negotiations and nearing a satisfactory conclusion, I will vigorously contest any extension of the stay. My initial request for payment was made on (date of preliminary request for payment) so I feel that there has already been ample time to resolve this without the need to resort to court action, which is why I did not agree to a stay on my Allocation Questionnaire.

 

I trust that we can now enter a sincere dialogue in order to comply with the deadline set. Please let me know if you require anything further from me, or clarification of any of the points raised, and be assured that I will do my utmost to comply as quickly as possible.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Sorry for the delay Maggie.

 

I have adapted this from a letter that I used in my case at this stage, so the points raised were relevant to the points on the defence used at that time in my case. Some of these may not be relevant to your case, but I have left them all in, but you should amend it to fit in with the defence in your case. If you need to delete any of the numbered points, remember to re-number the rest.

 

Just adapt it to suit yourself, but I hope it will start you off. Let me know if you need any more help with it.

[caro]

Dec 31 days

Jan 31

Feb 28

Mar 31

Apr 11 days so far

 

Total days 132 x49p = £64.68

 

Not to be sniffed at.

[caro]

Maggie, I'm not entirely sure if this is a standard thing or not. I think overdrafts often are available for a certain time and are then reviewed. Did the letter come from the branch where you normally bank or the Legal Services in Scotland?

[caro]

If you have any problems about the overdraft Maggie it may be worth you reminding them that the account is in dispute, and that as such no action should be taken until the dispute is resolved. You could add that it is the subject of a court action.

[caro]

The Financial Ombudsman Service covers all banks, but they won't deal with a complaint while a court case is pending.

[caro]

What did the court order say? Do you need to submit a new AQ? Check exactly what it says.

[caro]

Right, so you need to submit another AQ by 7 May then as nothing has been settled, but there shouldn't be a fee for it, as you've already paid that.

[caro]

Yes both you and the bank should send one, but if the court didn't send one give them a ring and check with them.

[caro]

Ooh Maggie, they are some sods aren't they? I know they had said they were going to review it, but this is out of order when your account is in dispute. Can I just ask if you were struggling to keep within your overdraft limit lately, or have had many charges?

 

If not this seems like retaliatory action to me, which is against the banking code.

[caro]

I think if I were you maggie, I'd open up a new basic account somewhere else, and get your benefits and any other money paid in there as quickly as possible, unless you have another account you can use. Then write to YB reminding them that the account is in dispute, and that they should not take any further action until the dispute is resolved.

 

I opened a Nat West Step account as a parachute account, but lots of banks have basic accounts, although you can't get overdrafts with them. Once your charges are repaid you can clear the YB overdraft once and for all and close the account.

[caro]

I can imagine. I know it's a pain, but I was just thinking it might be worth changing banks anyway. Get YB off your back once and for all. It's up to you.

[caro]

Ah right. Just a thought.