Alliance ANPR PCN -Appealed - now Letter of Claim - paid for wrong carpark via app - Sea View Car park, Polzeath, Cornwall PL27 6SR

[clou00]

1 Date of the infringement 16th March

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22nd March

3 Date received unsure

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] UNSURE

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y] post up your appeal] Yes. Stated incorrect location was used in JustPark app as honest mistake. Rejected of course.

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes, rejected:

Site: Sea View Car Park, PL27 6SR

Date of Event: 16th March 2024

We are in receipt of your challenge in relation to the above Parking Charge.

Appeals must be handled in a fair and consistent manner, therefore, in order for us to cancel any Parking Charge; it is necessary for us to find that the Notice was issued in error.

As per the clear and prominent signage at this location ('The Contract'), drivers agree to pay the sum of £100 if 'A valid ticket is not displayed face-up on the dashboard; enabling all of the printed information to be inspected'.

'The Contract' also details that there is an exception for those with a valid mobile session in place.

Had the driver felt that the terms of the contract were unacceptable, they had the option to seek alternative parking. By remaining, the driver is deemed in law to be bound by the terms of 'The Contract'.

Our photographic evidence confirms that a valid ticket was not displayed, and a search of our records confirms that no mobile session was in place for the registration XXXX at this location; therefore, your appeal is declined.

We note that you have submitted evidence of payment; however, said payment is not for this location.

It may be the case that you feel that the charge is unfair; however, there is no legal basis to now reject a charge that the driver has already agreed to pay.

In light of the above, the sum £100.00 is payable by 21/05/2024 or £170 thereafter.

Our internal appeals procedure is now exhausted, our decision is final; therefore no further correspondence other than payment will be addressed or responded to.

Should you disagree with our decision, you may submit an appeal to 'The Independent Appeals Service'; full details are on the rear of this letter.

7 Who is the parking company? Alliance Parking LTD

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Sea View Car park, Polzeath, Cornwall

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.IAS

Hi there, thanks in advance for any help on this.

 

Had 3 'PCNs' in post from Alliance for parking 3 times over a period of two weeks, unfortunately we were away from home so letters must have come over the two weeks but we received all at once if that makes sense.

I realised I had used the wrong location on the car park app. The signs are not clear what the location is called (no code.)

I only had receipts for two instances I assume the first, it didn't go through as had terrible signal.

Paid £60 for one of the charges.

Appealed the others saying it was an honest mistake and not very good signage (unfortunately submitted on their website and have no evidence of my appeal.) received the rejection of appeal as above.

Have now received the attached letter of claim.

I have done some research for the amazing snotty letters but wonder if someone could kindly help me with writing one specific to my case? Thank you so very much in advance.

 

 

2024-05-23 Alliance PAPloc.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Hi Clou,

Welcome to the Forum and thank you for reading first before you posted.

There seems to be many problems with Cornwall and getting a signal to use your a phone which could be why these parking companies don't use alternatives. It is a shame you paid the first one as you would probably have not had to pay that one either. 

Was the car park at which you paid the same parking company as the one sending you these PCNs? On the subject of PCNs could you please post them up so we can see if they comply with the Act.

[clou00]

NTK

 

 

2024-02-22 Alliance NTK for event 2024-03-16.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

They are absolute chuckleheads. You paid but because you entered a different car park site also belonging to them they are pursuing you despite them knowing what you had done. It would be very obvious to everyone, including Alliance that your car could not have been in two places at the same time.

Thank you for posting the PCN so quickly making it a pity that you appealed since there are so many things wrong with it that you as keeper are not liable to pay the charge. They rarely accept appeals since that would mean they lose money but they have virtually no chance of beating you in Court. Very unlikely that they will take you to Court given the circumstances.

Just in case you didn't out yourself as the driver could you please post up your appeal.

[clou00]

Thank you. Such a good point.

They did issue all 3 before I paid though.

I only paid one because I didn’t have proof of parking that time, only for two others. 

Unfortunately no proof of my appeal as it was just submitted through a form on their website and no copy was sent to me.

I only have the reply.

I believe I just put something like “we made the honest mistake of using the incorrect parking area on the app” and that’s it.

Thanks again for your help. 

[lookinforinfo]

OK  so you may not have outed yourself if you said "we". No matter either way you paid.

Snotty letter

I am surprised that they were so quick off the mark threatening Court. They usually take months to go that far. No doubt that as you paid the first one they decided to strike quickly and scare you into paying.

Dear Chuckleheads  aka Alliance, 

I am replying to your LOCs

You may have caught me the first time but that is  the end. What a nasty organisation you are. You do realise that you now have now no reason to continue to pursue me after reading my appeal since you know that my car was not cloned.

Any further pursuit will end up with a complaint to the ICO that you are breaching my GDPR. 

Please confirm that you have removed my details from your records.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't gone for a snotty letter this time as they know that you paid for your car in another car park. So using a shot across their bows . 

If it doesn't deter them and they send in the debt collectors or the Court you will then be able to get more money back from them for  breachi.ng your data protection than they will get should they win in Court-and they have no chance of that as you have paid. So go in with guns blazing and they might see sense. 

Although never underestimate how stupid they are. Or greedy.

[FTMDave]

I'm at work now but promise to look in later.

Can you confirm how you paid the first invoice?  It wasn't your fault if the signal was so poor and there was no alternative way to pay.  There must be a chance of reversing the charge with your bank. 

There are no guarantees but Kev  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09766749/officers  has never had the backbone to do court so far.  Not even in one case,

 

[dx100uk]

pdf's merged and properly named.

thread title updated.

word fine replaced by charge in post one....they are not fines mere speculative invoices.

just type no need to keep hitting quote.

 

dx

 

[clou00]

The car park I paid for by mistake instead of this one was Cornwall council, not Alliance.

Will the letter still be ok in this instance?

Thank you so much again for your help.

When you open the Just Park app in the  Alliance car park (Sea View) the first car park that comes up is Polzeath Beach.

Both car parks are on the beach.

The signs do not give a code for 'Sea View' anywhere.

I also have not been able to find the landowner to complain. (not on land registry.)

Please confirm whether above letter is ok to send, thanks again.

[FTMDave]

What you've just written complicates things.

No, the snotty letter now needs to be changed so don't rush and send something off just yet.

We see you've done your reading up - well done - so you'll have seen we have several cases with our mate Kev.  His MO is to hide signs in the undergrowth where no-one will see them, and ignore consideration & grace periods, so he can issue his invoices.  His antics mean that motorists are legally in the right not to pay his invoices.  And so far he hasn't had the bottle to do court.

However, your case is different.  As much as we despise Kev, you didn't pay for the private car park that Kev "manages" but instead gave the money to a completely different car park run by the council.  In that case Kev does have the right to be miffed.  I've just a mock booking for Sea View car park on JustPark and it works no problem.

I think you have two decisions to make.

1.  Do you want to do a chargeback with your bank to get back the £60 you paid?  I did a chargeback about a year ago for the first time, i didn't have a clue what to do, but the regulars here guided me and everything was painless.

2.  Although you are probably legally in the wrong and may have outed yourself as the driver do you want to refuse to pay Kev for the other two?  If Kev won't do court then after all his bluster you'll be in the clear. However, as there are two tickets involved (potentially three if you go for chargeback) Kev's greed might win over his lack of backbone and he may go for court.

There's no easy solution.  Your choice.  We will of course support you all the way with what you decide.

Edited May 28 by FTMDave
Typo

[clou00]

I suppose I felt my defence would be that it was an honest mistake and even the initial £60 charges seemed unjust, let alone the now two £170's he is now demanding.

There is no Justpark code for 'Sea View' on the signs in the car park and the first/nearest car park that comes up when you're in the Sea View car park is the 'Polzeath beach car park'.

If I have to accept that I need to pay £340 to avoid the stress of him maybe taking me to court, then so be it.

If people here advise me I don't have a case then I will just have to pay.

[FTMDave]

Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength.

In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver).

Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two.

Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so.

Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you Dave for jumping in yesterday and advising not to send off the letter I wrote.

I am sorry Clou but I thought at the time that both car parks were owned by Alliance. Before doing a snotty letter does anyone in your family able to alos drive your car apart from yourself and are you the keeper?