UKPC/DCB(Legal) 11+PCNs for privately owned van used for my Ltd Co. - PAPLOC for 5, gained Default Judgement!! - Parkhorse Shopping Centre, Church St, Hudds, HD1 2RT **SET ASIDE+CLAIM DISMISSED**

[lookinforinfo]

Well I would be careful about continuing to park there.

You are trespassing and the freeholder would have a claim against you even if UKPC don't.

 

Though the damage to their car park would not probably amount to much most Judges would take a dim view of your practice of parking there free whilst running up costs from UKPC sending out their invoices so you could find it to be an expensive mistake.

 

Against UKPC as it stands the likelihood if it went to Court and you defended well there may be no charge. Against the freeholder you have no defence so are at the mercy of the Judge and how good their QC is.

[lookinforinfo]

That article was written back in 2015

-I think you would have heard something from them by now.

 

And when they say they win most cases that go to Court they mean the ones where the motorist fails to turn up.

 

Up against a strong defence they rarely win.

Most of these parking companies only take a small percentage of non payers to Court.

 

This is to encourage many people to pay early to avoid Court.

 

As Renegadeimp said" they usually slip up on something when taking people to Court", which is true.

 

However they make most of their money from those who would rather pay up than go to Court.

[lookinforinfo]

If you have anything like 30 odd PCNs from the same parking company  

they are looking to get in excess of  £3000 from you.

 

They will not give that amount up without a strong fight.

In fact I am surprised that they have not already started Court proceedings .

 

They are not concerned about legal niceties at the best of times [eg just one PCN] so over 30 will be too much for them not to lie in their witness statements to the Court and ignore every other legal requirement necessary to  get money from you.

 

None of the major parking companies are honest so please do not think that you are going to get a walk over against them in Court. In fact, some Judges may take the view that because you have incurred so many tickets that they may decide to take the side of the parking company even if they would have cancelled it if you just had one ticket from them.

You will need very strong arguments to win and the clock is ticking............................

 

PS You are not a debtor.

You have been issued with a number of speculative invoices.

It remains to be seen if you owe any money at all.

 

The one advantage you do have is that because all the major parking companies think they are above the Law, they can usually be caught out when they do.

 

But we do need the ammunition from you before they can be shot down.

[lookinforinfo]

They will know your address without a doubt. 

You were not told that the DVLA could not get your address, you were told that it was unlikely that your motor Insurance could give it.

They get it from the DVLA along with the details of every other motorist who has fallen foul of their rules.

 

I am surprised that you have heard nothing from them for 15 months.

Unless you have changed address since then and not kept the DVLA informed. 

 

It seems crazy to do nothing and rely on a DRO.

First of all, they take about 12 months to kick in if you are eligible.

it wouldn't wipe all the £3000+ clean from the PCNs-perhaps only 60-70% of it perhaps.

 

You would still have to pay the balance on an amount that you probably didn't owe anyway and that is assuming the bailiffs haven't got to you before the DRO goes through and they could easily add another £1000 or so to your debt.

Many of them are just as venal as the parking companies.

 

But you know best so just carry on but don't be surprised if it doesn't work out the way you plan.

 

[lookinforinfo]

DCBL are surely masters of mathematics. Is there another bunch of crooks anywhere that could turn 5 PCNs with a maximum of £100 each into £1600.

If you still have the original PCNs could you please post them here.

 

I notice that some of the tickets are for parking without a permit. Did?you need a permit to be on site?

[lookinforinfo]

Just a quickie for now but the manager who has been writing to you is quite correct about planning permission. If the area is enclosed there is no need for planning permission.

 

Having looked at all the PCNs you uploaded not one of them complies with the protection of freedoms Act 2012.  That means UKPC cannot transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper. Bear in mind that the driver could be any of your family or friends or anyone else who has a valid vehicle insurance is able to drive that car.

 

The reason they don't comply is because under the Act UKPC must specify the period of parking during which the alleged breach occurred. all they have is the time the vehicle was first seen. They do show photos in all cases  but they are only spread across a couple of minutes or so. You are allowed a consideration period of five minutes so there was no breach according to the PCNs.

 

In addition they have missed out a vital piece of the Act in the Notice to Keeper.   PoFA  Schedule 4 S8 or 9 [2][f]  since both applied as sometimes you had a windscreen ticket and other times you didn't  states "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)". Well all the applicable conditions were not met as they didn't include the period of parking. In addition they also missed off the phrase above in parentheses which in itself is a breach of the Act.

 

As far as I remember most PCNs ,if not all ,were issued because of a lack of a permit rather than a case of no parking which unloading would have been the get out clause. I am surprised that as you were there so often you didn't qualify for a permit. Could you have got one  At other times when you were unloading perhaps the car park management said you were a tenant and it was ok to unload there?

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Are you saying that in that enclosed car park it was Permit holders only unless you were loading and unloading, or were there specific areas outside the Permit only part of the car park that loading/unloading was permitted?

[lookinforinfo]

I understand that   you were not the driver on any occasion when the PCNs were issued. As none of the PCNs are PoFA compliant they cannot win in Court.

[lookinforinfo]

I don't think that you should counter claim . If you want to pursue them for breaching your GDPR once they find out that you were never the driver then it is better to pursue them in a separate case.

[lookinforinfo]

if I didn't know better I would have thought my wife was driving for you as she has accumulated a similar number of PCNs.

 

I haven't paid any of them partly because I don't appeal: I write to the land owner or I find out why the ticket was issued incorrectly.

 

All the tickets you have from UKPC do not comply with PoFA  at the Packhorse mean that you are not liable as you are the keeper.

 

However there is one you haven't showed us from UKPC  -perhaps not from the Packhorse-on the 18/10/2019 where they have applied to the DVLA within the prescribed time. This means that if everything else on that PCN is also compliant then you would be liable to pay it should the driver not do so.

 

Usual crap from the DVLA trying to cover themselves and absolve themselves from any liability.

 

[lookinforinfo]

If you find te PCN from  18/10/2019 and post it on a new thread we can take a look to see if anyhting is wrong with it.

If you can't find it no doubt they will eventually catch up with you if it hasn't already been dealt with.

[lookinforinfo]

Mrk1 please do not bother yourself about who was driving. You as the keeper are not liable. The only person who is liable probably could not recall the day on which they got a PCN either.

You don't know who was driving , nor do UKPC or the DVLA. So UKPC are in a pickle.  They only person known to them who could have been driving the car is you and you are not liable. End of, from your point of view. And as long as UKPC do not know who was driving they have no one to pursue that they can get  money  from. It's their own fault for taking so long to chase up the PCNs when they first occurred.

[lookinforinfo]

In addition to your snotty letter you could try sending a separate Cease and Desist letter.

 

[I am writing this letter below as if I were you . You can copy it word for word if you want but please let us read it first in case there is a glitch in it somewhere

 

You write the Cease...etc at the top of the letter.

 

Then explain that you were never the driver in any of those PCNs. [if you were the person to whom the drivers were bringing goods to your shop tell them that].

 

In any event because of the time lapse you are unable to remember who was driving on any of the occasions that PCNs were issued so names and addresses cannot be provided.

 

As none of the PCNs are compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act  as the registered keeper you are not liable as non compliance means that UKPC cannot transfer the liability of any of the PCNs to you.

 

 Now that you [UKPC} have been informed of the situation, any further pursuit of me from you, your solicitors or debt collectors will be a breach of my GDPR. 

 

In the light of the number of PCNs involved that may mean that the average figure of around £2000  for a GDPR breach may well go considerably higher in this case.

 

As this amount is higher than the amount your are claiming from me and which I do not owe, it would be sensible on your part to drop my case now.

 

Failure to cease and desist from pursuing me from now on will result in me pursuing you for breaching my GDPR.

I hope this clarifies the position and that you cancel all the PCNs.

 

That should give them food for thought. If they don't reply and they would be stupid if they did you get left in peace. if they or their minions reply you have them do reply , you can take them to Court asking for a minimum of £2000 for the breach.

 

I should add that if they just write for clarification that would not be a breach, just if they continue to demand money from you or continue taking you to court.

Edited January 20, 2023 by lookinforinfo

[lookinforinfo]

 You don't need a template. Just copy out the post I used substituting you for me where appropriate. then when done please post it up on here just to ensure everything is ok.

With luck they may decide to end there. If not you have a potential financial gain by taking them to Court.

[lookinforinfo]

What took you so long?

 

It's a bit long winded but if you just delete the heading after Desist-no need to say all claims as they may have other at different dates.

 

Yes you could add that they can write to confirm the cancellations.

[lookinforinfo]

I did say that you removed the part of the heading AFTER Desist not remove the whole heading.

Please put CEASE AND DESIST as the heading ONLY

No you do not involve DCBL.

You cobbled something together that is nothing like the compatively brief letter I suggested and embellished it with loads of unnecesssary comments that  detract from the whole point of a Cease and Desist letter.

After reading it again , please remove this bit  "This letter is a demand that you now cease and desist any pathetic claim against me, as it will not go well for you. "

I notice that you did not include DCBL or the debt collectors in your letter so if they those two pursue you they may not have breached your GDPR.

Also please remove the paragraph beginning "You may be unaware and ending with "I was most grateful for this as you can imagine. " It's a legal status letter not Mrs Dales Diary .

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

That is much better and good to go once you include the lines I included in my first letter.

 

"Now that you [UKPC} have been informed of the situation, any further pursuit of me from you, your solicitors or debt collectors will be a breach of my GDPR. "

 

i did not name them deliberately as by using a ider term for them it prevents UKPC from using a different company. Also they may forget to tell their two sidekicks and that may give a chance to earn some money from them.

 

I am sorry if I was a bit sharpish last night it was late and Iwanted to get to bed.

Last tme we did it there was total silence from that company. so perhaps the letter will end it for you too.

[lookinforinfo]

Well done. Hope they take you seriously.

[lookinforinfo]

I am not sure you are right on that Dave. MTK was not the driver and can swear to that on the bottom of his WS. On top of that they have to give some proof that he was driving and they cannot do  that.

[lookinforinfo]

On 29th January post 195 you posted a letter from DCBL

"

Within 30 days of the date of this letter you should either make payent using one of the methods or complete the reply form and financial statement. Failure to do so is LIKELY to result ina. claim being issued without notice."

 

Did you reply to that letter? If not that is why they went to Court without apparently telling you that   they were going to Court.

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Once they have the warrant they can come to your house. What you must not do is to let them in . Once they get in and they may try and use force which they are not supposed to do but they will deny they have used force  if they do get in. Once they are in they are then legally able to search your house and take such goods that they think will raise sufficient money to pay off the CCJ and their fees.

 

Ideally you want to be able to get the bailiff stopped from getting the warrant. Because you are going to get a set aside. The whole point of the set aside is for you to be able to put your side of the story to the Court. Hopefully you will get the set aside and then have the charges against you cancelled. So you don't owe any money to UKPC , DCBL or the Court.  And so the bailiffs never get involved. But it does mean that you must get the set aside regardless of the cost.  A set aside will cost less than £300 while you are looking at well over £2000 once the bailiffs get involved.

 

Have you checked yet to see if your situation means that you won't need to pay for the set aside.?

 

Since that letter that they sent you at post 195 are you absolutely certain that you received no further correspondence from UKPC  or their legal team?

Please treat this as serious. 

Bailiffs can take what ever possessions they can to collect the amount ordered by the Court. Even if they cannot gain access to your property they will take your car and garage it somewhere charging you for its storage as well as things like freezing your bank account and trying to take possession of any business equipment you may have. Whilst some of this may be illegal it will take some time for them to release it back to you and it will not result in the amount of the CCJ being reduced.

 

You are now up against the State and no amount of belligerence on your part will cut any ice with them. A Court order has been issued and it will be the job of bailiffs to collect it  and they will have the full backing of the Law to do so

 

I am not saying that to frighten you but to explain the position you are in.  The set aside is vital as is stopping the bailiffs  from obtaining the warrant.

 

To answer your questions about bailiffs. They can enter your property if the door is unlocked. They can impound your car and the goods inside. They can legally ignore any notices you put up about ceasing and desisting as they have the power of the Courts behind them. 

[lookinforinfo]

Well at least you know what their arguments are against you.

As over 14 million letters go missing each year in Britain so yours could quite easily be one of the missing ones. Put them to strict proof that the letter was sent and point out that it was in the interest of UKPC not to have it delivered. That way they would be unopposed in Court which would be an advantage in view of the number of PCNs included as well as the unlawful addition of extra charges.

[lookinforinfo]

You would have thought that if they now know you are applying for a set aside that they would call off their bailiffs to avoid having to pay their charges when you win your case.

[lookinforinfo]

Thanks for the heads up FTM.

[lookinforinfo]

If you stick to your task which is to show that you were not told when the case was being held  And despite what the rogues may say you did not receive the summons.

 

In the light of the number of PCNs involved it would be extremely unfair not to let me put my side of the position.

 

With the Post Office having strikes about the time  when you should have received your notice to attend Court it was perhaps quite likely that some mail would go astray or not get delivered And you may well have been unlucky with your mail because of the strike or the chaos that would have built up after the strike was over but the backlog and not been cleared. You also heard that a lot of mail was dumped in certain parts of the Country.

 

You are particularly upset by not being at the Hearing because you were very keen on attending since you were confident that you had a strong case which was helped by the mistakes by the appellant and their legal team. .But mainly the case would rest on the fact that you were never the driver and your vans were entitled to be there.

 

On top of that your vans were never parked there, they were unloading.