Run a small construction co. - client won't pay final invoice. - help RE: Small claims please ***Resolved***

[Kwabena]

The only way I can think that there could be an issue is if it doesn't run downhill from the w/c towards the outside,  but this doesn't need the whole drain system fitted to check it.

 

I guess and at this stage where they are suspicious of everything I have done then I guess I can't blame them for wanting to check it,  I just don't see any issues with it.

 

A friend was working there at the wknd and apparently the drain was being fitted then and may be finished early this week

 

 

 

[Kwabena]

Honestly couldn't say what the cost would be...it would depend on the problem and who fixes it.  If the problem is that it doesn't fall the correct way then it's a big costly problem that could cost thousands.  This has never happened to me though.

 

As I understand it, if there is an issue then they need to contact me first and give me the opportunity to put it right...do you know if that is correct?

 

My friend will be working there on and off and can keep me posted as to what is happening on site but I doubt he will get much info from the clients

 

 

 

 

[Kwabena]

Agreed.  Have sent it and will update if/when I get a reply

Thanks

[Kwabena]

No reply...not that surprised to be honest.  They normally reply fairly quickly if they are going to so I'm guessing they're staying silent on this one

[Kwabena]

I don't know much about them at all...I hardly saw them!! I think he is something to do with the organising side of social housing...logistics etc. Probably runs a team.  I think she may work in some capacity for the local authority but I could be completely mistaken about that.

 

I get the impression that they will dig their heels in and fight it if we go down that road.

 

I also get the impression that they will do their research and provide the best defence possible rather than just turn up on the day assuming they will win

[Kwabena]

It just seems to be a case of not wanting to pay,  and then trying to find reasons to justify that rather than finding a problem and bringing it up with me to find a solution.

 

It's frustrating as I'm actually a pretty reasonable person and if there was a problem I would be the first to say hold on to some money until it is resolved.

[Kwabena]

Many thanks,  i'll have a read through and start preparing

[Kwabena]

Morning.  Quick update...I haven't had any contact at all from the client since my last message.  I've found out from people I know who are still working there that the new drain is installed in the ground although it's not connected to the electric supply yet, and this may not happen for another couple of weeks.

 

I'm only guessing but they may be thinking that they want bathroom/kitchen fitted and usable before they will even contact me,  I would argue that my part of the drain an be tested now.

 

Is it worth asking them when they are going to let me know some information or shall I just send the letter of claim?

[Kwabena]

Yeah this was discussed earlier in the thread...I installed a drain which came from inside the building (from new bathroom and kitchen) and was left capped underground to be connected at a later date which is perfectly normal/acceptable.

The client is saying they won't communicate with me until the drain is installed and tested as they have unknown "concerns" that it is not installed correctly

 

Their concerns are unfounded but potentially I could understand their point.  I feel it's at stage where it could be tested now but I have a feeling they will wait until everything (bathroom/kitchen) is fitted before deciding what to do and letting me know

[Kwabena]

Ah ok...is that true even if they are in a position to test the drains?   Do I just have to wait for them to decide they are ready to speak to me?

Is it worth me emailing and asking them what stage they are waiting for to get back to me,  and asking for a rough date?

 

[Kwabena]

A drain is basically a pipe in the ground which runs slightly down hill...there's not a great deal that can go wrong with it unless it runs downhill the wrong way!  For example, all building control need  to sign them off is to see water being poured in one end and appearing at the other

 

[Kwabena]

Ok,  thanks for that and I appreciate what your saying.

Just to clarify,  I don't know what stage they are going to say the drains are ready for testing and acceptable to them,  I would argue it could be done now but I am guessing they will want the job completely finished with bathroom and kitchen working.  

If this is the case we could be talking a month or two,  and I would feel it is unnecessary. as drains can be tested sooner than that.  Would you still suggest to wait on this and not send any communication?

 

I don't particularly get annoyed or humiliated when I don't get a reply from them,  I kind of expect it to be honest.  It's kind of frustrating being in this limbo though of just sitting here waiting for them to decide they are ready to talk to me and also decide how much they are willing to pay me

[Kwabena]

I know,  and I really appreciate the advice you have given

 

I'll write something up tomorrow and post here to see if it's ok

[Kwabena]

Hi,  is something like this ok?

 

Dear ****

 

Further to your previous emails where you stated you wanted to wait until the drain is tested,  would you be able to let me know what test you want to perform and when this is likely to happen?

 

Yours sincerely

****

[Kwabena]

Hi @BankFodder,  just to check is something like the above ok to send?

 

[Kwabena]

Ah,  ok.  Sorry, hadn't noticed that

 

 

[Kwabena]

I've been thinking.  It seems unreasonable for someone to wait until a bathroom and kitchen is fitted to pay someone for the drains being fitted (which is what I assume they want to do).  No-one waits until this stage to test them...otherwise it would be to late to do anything about them as they are buried beneath the concrete slab in the living space.

 

I would say it is reasonable to test them now by pouring some water down them and seeing if it runs the right way...that's literally all there is to the bit of the drains that I did.  Should I suggest this?

 

 

 

[Kwabena]

Hi,  

 

I got a reply!  Very brief but here it is....

 

Hi ****

 

When the drains are connected and have been commissioned I will be able to update you on testing of the drains.  

 

Regards

****

 

 

 

I'm thinking of sending something like this in reply

 

"When you say commissioned what is it you mean exactly? Did the contractors who fitted the external pump voice any concerns?

 

I don't think it's unreasonable of me to ask for a rough date of when you anticipate this being completed?"

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify...there is no reason to wait until everything is connected for the drains to be tested...building control may have even signed them off already (although I don't know that for sure) and generally will just require to see water being poured in one end and coming out of the other to check the fall the right way

 

Thanks

[Kwabena]

Agreed...thanks for the ammendment.  I'll keep you posted

 

Quick question...in this forum are we welcome to post advice in threads started by others?

[Kwabena]

Ok so no reply to the last email...What are my options?  It seems unfair that I have to just wait until and unknown time in the future before I will hear back with any details of what they propose to pay for.

 

I may be able to find out if building control have already signed off the drains..would this make a difference to anything?

[Kwabena]

Yeah I wasn't surprised not to get a reply either! Judging from one of their early emails, and the little I know of them I think the option  are going for is to try and make me accept some fairly brutal compromise.  They indicated this by their list of demands they sent early on...(see below)

 

 

In addition, there are a few issues highlighted below which will mean the final amount will be reduced:

• For the book keeping charge that has been included won’t be covered by us, this is because we have paid a day rate that and the time taken to make the payments is covered by the reduced hours on site due to childcare arrangements.
• For the kitchen lights we’ll purchase the replacement lights and bulbs and take the cost of this from the final amount paid.  
• There is an excess of steel from Buildbase left on site and we are happy for you to return this to them for your account to be credited.  We’ve checked the cost on Buildbase and will reduce this from the final amount paid.  The steel is located at the side of the house (where it was left underneath the pallets), please let us know if or when you'll pick it up.  
• Similarly there are unopened materials which could have been returned, so again we’ll reduce the final price and for the cash float there is £10 unaccounted for, so we’ll also take this from the final amount.  

So in summary, payment of the last invoice (at a reduced sum) will be held until the remaining works are completed.  This is because the contractors met on site are not confident that the work has been completed as required and because of the additional costs incurred.  

 

I’d suggest we communicate by email until this is resolved.  

 

[Kwabena]

Thanks for your other suggestion.  It would generally be a RICS qualified chartered surveyor who would get involved in any disputes,  I'm not sure if it's appropriate here though as they haven't mentioned anything about the quality of work,  which is the only thing they would come out to assess.

The drains will work...and it's unreasonable of them to hold money until they are connected.  No builder waits until the job is completed before invoicing for the drains,  they are one of the first things to go in and we can't wait months until the bathrooms are fitted for payment.  They're not asking the roofer to wait until there's a storm before paying them.

 

So from my point of view I feel like I should start an action but I don't know if this drain thing will interfere in it.  I don't know what would happen if I start the action and then before it goes to court they fit the bathroom and pay me some reduced amount for work done minus their bogus claims.

[Kwabena]

Will do thanks.  The only surveyor I know is excellent but would cost a fortune for this as he is based about 150 miles away and charges for travel.  I would estimate somewhere upwards of £500.

 

I would like to think I could get a  surveyor locally to do this kind of thing for around £300 as a guess   

[Kwabena]

What is it I'm asking them to quote for...there isn't any issues as far as I can tell.  The only thing they have mentioned on the quality side is that they want to wait for the drains to be "commisioned" (whatever that means...I'm assuming the bathroom fitted) before they will communicate with me further.

 

The other things they mentioned are random deductions they feel free to impose on me (listed a couple of posts above)

[Kwabena]

Just so I get this clear in my head,  are you saying that I should go ahead and get an independent survey on the whole job to show that there is nothing wrong with it and it is built to an acceptable standard?

 

Is the thinking that if the report comes back and says everything is good that I can use that in court to back up my claim?

 

The thing that would make me think twice about this is that they aren't questioning the quality of any of the work and I'm not sure if that would address the specific concerns that they raised in their initial email