2nd hand car fault - Cambridgeshire Motor House in Peterborough? - **Solved**

[slimswan]

Hi everyone, first time posting

 

Long story short, a week ago I bought a used 2016 Jaguar XF for nearly £14k from a dealer with a 3 month external warranty, 3 days later I notice 2 issues: 

 

1. Washer fluid low warning is on even though the washer fluid tank is full, most likely the washer fluid sensor needs to be replaced. This will be covered under the external warranty.

 

2. Start/Stop system doesn’t work. Took the car to an official jaguar dealership where they confirmed it doesn’t work and I have it in writing, they want to carry out a battery test and most likely there will one out of 2 outcomes, either the battery just needs to be charged as needs to be at a specific charge level for the start/stop to work or it will need to be replaced completely. This is not covered under the external warranty.

 

I advised the dealership where I got the car from about the issue however the guy is adamant that the start/stop is working as it was fine during a ‘pre-sale test drive’ I told him that the health check from Jaguar clearly states that it doesn’t work, I was never informed about this issue when buying the car, I was told that all functions are working as they should.

 

I’ve let the dealer know that I will pay for the battery charge and testing from my own pocket (got it booked for Saturday) but if it turns out that the battery needs replacing I will not be paying £340 for a new battery and advised that I expect them to cover the cost. I’ve had no reply after that.

 

Now to my question, in the event of the battery needing replacement in order to fix the start/stop system and the dealer not cooperating, if I was to take him to a small claims court for the the cost of the new battery would I have a chance of winning?

 

Many thanks for any advice.
 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by slimswan

[slimswan]

Thanks for the reply.

 

The reason why I am willing to pay for the battery testing and charging is that it’s more cost effective for me to do this at my local Jaguar dealership, and will leave me with an official document stating if the battery needs to be replaced rather than travelling 2 hours one way to the dealer where I bought the car from for them to do their ‘tests’ and then try to tell me that ‘they’re sure the start/stop system works’ like they’ve been doing for the last week.
 

If it turns out that the battery needs to be replaced I will simply ask for the dealer to cover the cost of a new one, theres no need for me to waste a whole day at work + fuel to drive all the way to the dealer, if he fails to pay for a new battery I will claim all costs back including the diagnostic cost. If I don’t have an official diagnosis then surely it would be his word against mine? In case of a small claims court claim I need to have proof that he sold me a car with a defective battery thus making the start/stop system useless. 

 

Maybe I’m wrong as I’ve never been in a situation like this, but what should I do now when the dealer is adamant that the start/stop system works?

[slimswan]

Thanks for the recommendation, I will look into it. 

 

I am also nearly positive that the battery will need to be replaced, I just don’t want to pay out of my own pocket as I bought a car where all functions should be working as advertised.

 

The dealer did not want to drop the price of the car even by a penny therefore I do not expect to be buying parts for it a week into ownership.

 

Bottle sensor sill be sorted by the external warranty that came with the car so not worried about that.

[slimswan]

2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

But if the fault exists, then you will be able to claim all expenses – including fitting, travelling, time off work if that can be verified – et cetera.

How far away from you is the dealer? I notice that you haven't responded to my question about this. Are you trying to protect them?

My bad, of course not trying to protect them.

 

Dealer name is Cambridgeshire Motor House in Peterborough, over 100miles from where I live (London).

 

What do you suggest that my next steps should be? The dealer keeps telling me that there is no fault with the start/stop and that it will eventually kick in when the right conditions  are met, its’s like he is just trying to buy time, even though I have a health check from Jaguar clearly stating that it does not work following their test drive. 

[slimswan]

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I think you could not have made my options any clearer so thank you for your time. 

 

I am keeping a paper trail since the beginning as I know if will be beneficial if the dealer does not cooperate.  I also informed him about all faults found and the steps I intend to take like taking the car for the battery testing. I am honestly trying to be nice and only asking for the battery to be replaced if it actually turns out to be faulty. At no point did the dealer give me the option to take the car back to them to have a look at the fault.

 

Thankfully following the health check from Jaguar there are no more faults which seem to be present at this moment in time so I would prefer to keep the car as long as the start/stop system is fixed.

 

I paid a 25% deposit directly to the dealer and took the remaining sum out on HP Finance from Lloyds Bank. 

 

I already informed the dealer about carrying out the battery test at the Jaguar dealership, and that if it turns out that the battery is faulty I expect the cost to be covered by them (had no reply to that). I could refuse to carry out any diagnostics myself and ask the dealer to collect the car, diagnose and rectify the issue which would cost  the dealer much more money and time, but I'm still trying to be nice.. for now at least.

 

I will wait until I get the battery tested on Saturday and will advise the dealer of the outcome, if battery will need to be replaced then I will quote the cost and ask if they will reimburse the replacement costs to me without actually going back to them, if they will want to carry out their own testing I will agree to it providing that they will then also cover the cost of taking a day off work, fuel costs and the cost of replacing the battery. If they do not cooperate and refuse to pay for the works I will then get a 2nd opinion from a reputable garage as you advised, I will then pay the Jaguar dealership for the battery replacement and pursue a reimbursement through the small claims court.

 

I hope that the above is the correct way of dealing with this considering that I want to keep the car.  

[slimswan]

44 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Was the finance agreement with the bank associated with the purchase of the vehicle? Or was it a separate personal loan which provided you with cash to pay for the vehicle?

Your plan of action seems fine. Once again, your paper trail should not only be recording what you have done – but also should be very clear about providing the dealer advance notice of everything you are doing and giving them a chance to comment. All assessments and quotations should have corroborative assessments and quotations and the dealer should be provided with everything in order to be perfectly informed and to be able to make a valid comment.

Make sure you give the dealer adequate notice and time to respond.

I think while you are making all these enquiries, it would be prudent also to find out what the reasonable life of this battery would be.

If it went to court, and if the dealer really wanted to argue the fine detail, there could be an argument for saying that you should accept a pro rata reduction on the cost of a new battery – given that you only ever expected to buy a second-hand car with the second hand battery in it.
However, I will keep this part of the enquiry separate and private – and wait until the dealer brings the point up if at all.

If you want help bringing the County Court claim, then of course let us know

 

The finance agreement is secured against the car, its a Hire Purchase agreement.

 

I just sent the dealer a message with the next steps that Intend to take and asked if he is willing to cooperate and cover the cost of the replacement battery if that turns out to be the cause of the start/stop system not working, I also let him know that if he wishes to carry out his own testing I am more then happy to allow this to happen providing that he covers  the transport costs along with any costs to rectify the fault. I asked him for his comments on the above.

 

I am not sure about the battery lifespan and will look into it, if the battery would be completely dead then I could have trouble with him defending himself by saying that it's wear and tear of a used car, however the problem here is with the start/stop system which happens to heavily rely on the battery to work properly, bearing in mind its not 100% confirmed to be a battery fault, this is just the most likely scenario according to Jaguar, hence why I am sending the car in for this to be tested. If it turns out that the battery is not at fault then it will get much more complicated but for now lets hope that it's only the battery that needs replacing. 

 

I will update once I hear back from the dealer but since he ignored my yesterdays reply to him claiming that I'm in the wrong, he might not bother to reply today either. 

 

 

[slimswan]

20 hours ago, BankFodder said:

As this is a hire purchase vehicle, then section 75 consumer credit act applies.

I would copy the hire purchase finance company into everything. Tell the dealer that you are also beginning a section 75 process.

Make a complaint to the finance company – partly so that they are fully aware and they can raise their own objections – but also to spread a little extra trouble around.

 

Also, if you are raising issues with the dealer and the dealer is not responding or cooperating, then you should make sure that the finance company knows about this as well. They would certainly expect the dealer to cooperate in solving any problems.

The dealer replied yesterday in a much more formal manner when I quoted that I am covered by the consumer rights act and the repair is within my rights.

 

He said that he looked at the vehicle health check from Jaguar and advised that they are willing to make a one-off payment of £147 towards the new battery if this fixes the Start/Stop system in line with with Jaguars recommendations, he also mentioned that if this does not fix the problem I am welcome to bring the car back for a full refund.

 

I advised that the price of £146 which is on the health check only quoted the price for the battery testing, charging and ecu update (clearly written on the report) and this will then tell me if the battery needs replacing, if after the check it turns out that the battery needs replacing then I will want reimbursement of £347.51 which is the price of a new battery from Jaguar.

 

I advised him of the above and asked for confirmation in writing that they will pay me back for the actual battery replacement if it comes to it. I asked that they reply within 48h with confirmation that this cost will be covered so that I know where I stand when I get the battery tested on Saturday. 

 

Will update as soon as I hear back from them 

[slimswan]

I received the following reply from the dealer:

 

Quote

Have it checked as planned tomorrow, it may be a case of battery charging as you mentioned before

 

I have rang Euro car parts to find out how much would a AGM battery be, who quoted us £203 for a BOSCH battery
quite a difference from what main dealers will charge.

 

If it is the battery causing the start-stop issue, they can confirm that, then we as a gesture of goodwill will pay for the battery

Look forward to hearing from you tomorrow

 

Is the dealer able to choose a replacement battery of his choice rather then agreeing to pay the dealership prices? I am aware of the fact that main dealerships charge twice the amount for practically the same thing, I'm not sure if the Bosch battery which the dealer is talking about is any worse then the official jaguar battery but obviously I would have a peace of mind if an original battery was fitted. 

 

If I was to decline his offer and pursue him paying for a battery directly from jaguar then he would have a good line of defense and could argue that he did offer to replace the battery?

 

 

[slimswan]

Hi Guys,

 

Sorry for a late update but have been away the last few days.

 

The dealer has paid me back for a brand new battery. Had it fitted and the start/stop now works like brand new.

 

This is a win for me, I am very grateful for all of your support and most importantly your time, especially @BankFodder who was out here writing essays with very useful information. I've learned a thing or two.

 

Thank you!