Parcel2go + Hermes

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that you certainly haven't helped your chances by not giving the correct value – even if it was an accident.

I don't quite understand where you are with them. Are they saying that it is damaged and disposed of? Or are they now simply saying that it is lost?

Also, I'm afraid that the images that you have put up are a bit difficult to read. Please would you put them into a scanned PDF document. Thank you

[BankFodder]

I think it might be worth taking your time with this one. I'm interested in the conflicting versions of what has happened to the parcel. I suggest that you send Hermes and SAR. Keep it very wide. Use our template. Send it by email immediately – and then by recorded delivery letter on Monday. In the letter refer to the email that you have sent already dated XXX

[BankFodder]

Send a similar SAR to Parcel2Go

[BankFodder]

If you follow the SAR template, then you will see a very widely drafted example.

There is no reason to limit it or to give any clues or inadvertently exclude any useful information. Get everything

[BankFodder]

What date did you send the SARs please?

Also you indicated at the outset that you had been told that the parcel was damaged. Have you got this in writing? Please can you post it up here in PDF format

[BankFodder]

So you are saying that you didn't take any record of the chat?

[BankFodder]

Well I suppose it's too late for you doubt – but I'm going to say anyway that these for the benefit of other people who come to this thread.

When you're dealing with companies you need to look after yourself because they won't.
If you are dealing with any company about some problem that is going wrong then you need to make sure that you've got a complete paper trail/record/telephone record of everything that is said or done.

I'm afraid it's the only way to survive and it's a great shame to have to say it.

If you had some proper evidence that they were claiming to have damaged and then destroyed your chair with put you in a very excellent position to get extra compensation. Certainly the SAR might disclose something – but you can already see that either they don't want to disclose information or else they are so ramshackle that they have no idea what you're talking about when you sent them a statutory request for data disclosure.

  

9 hours ago, Sifer said:

yes, at the time I didn't realise it was going to progress as it did.

 

This is a bit like saying that you didn't wear a bullet-proof vest because you didn't think you are going to get shot. .

 

 

[BankFodder]

Okay here we have a situation here where you sent a chair worth £150, except you inadvertently tell them that it was only worth £50. You had a chat in which they said that the chair was damaged but you've inadvertently not kept a copy of the chat record.

This means that you can probably only claim £50. If you had evidence that they said that they had damaged the chair and destroyed it, then we might well have been able to add an extra £20 or £25.

You've sent an SAR to both Hermes and also to P2G and although both of them appear to have received the SAR, neither of them could have complied so this means that they are both in breach of their statutory obligations.

You've obviously been to some trouble and suffered some stress as a result of having made his applications and having been frustrated by it. I would suggest that you could quite easily put in a claim for about ££50 for their statutory breach.

So one of them you could probably sue for the £50 for the value of the chair plus £50 for distress caused by their breach of statutory duty.

If you felt that you have got the energy for it then you could sue the other one simply for £50 for distress caused by their breach of statutory duty.

It would be extremely unlikely that either them would want to go to court about it. Apart from anything else, if you received a judgement in respect of the distress caused by their failure to comply with the SAR, then you can send a copy of that judgement to the ICO. The ICO wouldn't treat it very seriously – but the ICO would have to take some notice and I suppose it would result in a complaint being written by them to the data controller of each one of those two companies.

If during the action a disclosure did miraculously appear which confirmed that they had damaged and then destroyed your item then you might reasonably be able to add another £25 – maybe we would consider adding another £50 to see what happened.

So the question is, do you want to take control – and if so are you prepared to issue a legal action and if you are, are you prepared to issue a legal action against one of them or against both of them?
One action for the lost item and for their breach of statutory duty – and one action for breach of statutory duty on its own.

[BankFodder]

Yes, you will claim everything.

To begin with, you should be prepared to the extent that you understand all the various arguments so that you are confident when you start your legal action.

Of course you can ask us questions but we would like to feel that you have done your bit by reading around and understanding the basic journey.

So read around all the sub forums. You will find a pretty familiar story about suing Hermes and by and large the same thing will apply to P2G.

In terms of suing for distress for breach of the SAR, search around but recently we had a thread where somebody got a successful judgement against virgin. I suggest that you search on – virgin and SAR and you should find something which pops up fairly close to the top. It's a long thread about a number of issues but you will find the bits and pieces that deal with the SAR and the judgement which was received. We haven't enforced it yet because we are going for a second claim against them because they are still in breach.

So do your basic reading around and then come back here.

I suggest that over the weekend we will draft a letter of claim to each of these organisations and then you can send them off on Monday


 

[BankFodder]

I've had a few thoughts about this and it seems to me that you could probably exploit this to your advantage – but assuming that you are prepared to take a bit of time over it and that you are not desperate for the money.

Although it would be a bit more troublesome for you, you might consider it to be an interesting exercise and you might find it rather satisfying to push your weight around with these people rather than be pushed around by them.

If you would like, you could delay suing them for the lost or damaged chair – for which you are probably only going to get £50 anyway, but instead sue them each individually for their breach of statutory duty on the basis that their entire handling of the situation and particularly their failure to provide you with your personal data has been distressing and you want, say, £30 for distress.

I think that if you sent a letter of claim to each of them, the chances are that they wouldn't know what to do and you would end up having to issue a legal action in both cases. Each one of those actions would cost you £25 – but you would get this back assuming you won your case – which you almost inevitably would. In fact far more likely than having to go to court, I would imagine that both Hermes and P2G would put their hands up and simply pay you out your money plus your court fee. Furthermore, they might then start to take you seriously and provide the personal data that you are after.

Assuming this goes to plan, you would then have the small amounts of compensation from both of these companies plus your personal data plus and experience in bringing a small claim.
Once that had happened, you could then go ahead to sue one of the companies – probably P2G – for the missing parcel and frankly if you did get evidence that it had been damaged and destroyed then I think that we would consider an action for trespass/conversion and sue them for the declared value plus something for trespass.

It's up to you.

If you simply wanted to get it out of the way – because it's too much trouble nor because you need the money then we could go straight ahead and sue for the breach of the SAR and also for the chair – but you should realise that even if you do this, it is still going to take probably two or maybe even three months before you get your result. Also, without evidence of the damage, I think you will be limited to the £50 declared value and you would not be able to add something for the conversion of your property.

Please let us know how you would like to play it

[BankFodder]

Yes, that will be fine. I suggest that you include a reference number/tracking number.

Send one to each of them.

Be careful not to mix them up if you are suing each of them. Keep very distinct files of what happens

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry you feel unwell, but once you embark on this, you're going to have to stay the course and observe deadlines.

Dealing with one at a time – because it's been quite a few weeks,
I understand that you sent Hermes and SAR and they eventually comply – but it was late. Is this correct? It was late by how many weeks?

I understand that you sent P2 G and SAR and they haven't responded at all. When was the return date for their disclosure?

[BankFodder]

Okay. So they were both in breach of their statutory duty – and you could sue both of them.

I understand that you are out of pocket to the tune of £150 for the chair and £30 for the delivery.
Dealing with Hermes, I suggest that you sue for the recovery your £50 which was the declared value plus the delivery cost – which I understand to be about £30.

Additionally, I think I would want to see them in conversion on the basis that they damaged your goods, they could have returned them that they decided without any reference to you and without any authority to destroy them. It seems to me that it will be worth asking the court not only to compensate you for the declared value of the item, but also a figure in punitive compensation not exceeding £125.

The idea here is that you are suing for the declared value of your item, but had it been returned to you – as it should have been – instead of being destroyed, you would have then been able to deal with it and repair it and you then be able to recover the entire value of the chair.

Let me know if this makes sense.

 

 

Frankly if you are prepared to do this, then I would keep a claim for breach of the SAR down to a minimum – simply a symbolic £10.

On that basis, your claim would be for £50 plus £30 plus £125 plus £10 = £215.

 

In terms of the SAR request, they were entitled to ascertain your identity. Did the portal application ask for any special identity verification information? If it did – then it had some use. On the other hand if it didn't, then it was purely a formality and it was unlawful.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++

In respect of P2 G, they are clearly in breach and it seems to me that it might be reasonable to issue proceedings against them for, say, £50 – distress.

Don't forget they could force you into court on this and they might well decide to do so simply on a matter of principle. You would have to be prepared to explain how the difficulty in obtaining your personal data and the delay affected you to the extent that you think you suffered distress of value of £50. They were certainly entitled to ask you to verify your identity although it seems that they were rather slow in doing this – and the fact that eventually they didn't respond with anything puts them very could squarely in breach of their statutory duty.

To sue P2G will be a straightforward matter but you will have to pay the claim fee of £25 and if they push it to a hearing then probably about another £30 or so. If for some reason rather you lose, then this is the amount of money you risk.
I can't see you losing – although it could be that you are obliged to make a compromise on the amount of money your claim by way of distress. So if you won, they will probably be some financial advantage – but also it might give you satisfaction that you have delivered a slap in the face to them.
However, don't forget that it was your fault that you declared an undervalue and so therefore it is your fault that you are unable to claim the full value of the item which has been lost.

 

Let me make it clear though, that we haven't tried making a claim in conversion for a destroyed item – and so you would be the guinea pig. The complicating factor is that you under declared the value. If you feel at all fragile or stressed about this then you ought to limit yourself to something much more moderate – simply claiming the declared value and nothing else.

From my point of view, I'm curious to see what would happen – but on the other hand I have nothing to lose. You need to consider your own best interest above everything else.

[BankFodder]

Here's a suggested letter of claim below.

Please don't imagine that this will be simple. I can imagine that such an unusual claim will cause difficulties for them that it will energise them into being prepared to deal with it rather than simply caving at mediation and to pay you out.

It will be very interesting. Your chances of recovering your £50 and your £30 fee are extremely high. The chances of recovering damages for distress are pretty good. The chances of recovering some punitive compensation will be good – 55% (let's say).

We will help you all the way – but if you want an easy life then you probably should simply set out to recover your £50 and the £30.

Check the letter below. Fill in all the bits that I've left for you in red and post up what eventually you are going to send.

 

Don't expect them to jump to attention when they get this letter. You will definitely have to issue a court claim

 

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

Letter of claim reference number X X X

 

As you know, on X X X date I used your service to send a chair to an address in X X town. The chair was apparently damaged by your negligent handling and you then proceeded to destroy without any reference to me or any authority do so.

I inadvertently declared the chair to have a value of £50 and it was on this basis that you agreed to take it into your care. However, the full value of the chair was £150 and I have evidence to support this. The delivery fee was £29 X X

I have since been told that you refuse to accept any responsibility.

I am writing to tell you that I am proposing to sue you in the County Court for the £50 declared value but also on the basis that you have dealt with my property without permission from me, I am also you in the tort of conversion and I shall be inviting the court to make a punitive award in addition to the declared value of up to £125. This is in addition to my £X X X delivery fee.

Additionally, I have been trying to deal with this much earlier and on X X X date I supplied you with a subject access request. The return date for this subject access request was (X X X 31 days later X X X). In the event, you eventually complied with my statutory request on X X X date – a full two months in excess of the statutory period of 30 days.
Your breach of statutory duty has added to the problems that I have experienced and cause me distress.
In addition to the claim for negligence/breach of contract/conversion which I have referred to above, I am also proposing to sue you for £15 to compensate me for the distress you have caused to me by a statutory bridge.

If I do not receive a payment of (add it all up £X X X) within 14 days of this letter and I shall begin proceedings without any further notice.

Yours faithfully
 

 

[BankFodder]

I put some corrections in red and also you should give the date – not 31 days

The reference number is whatever complaints or tracking reference they had

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear Stephen

Thank you very much indeed for your letter dated X X X responding to my letter of claim concerning  my lo st parcel reference number X X X.

You suggest that I liaise with Parcel2Go.

I shall be suing you as a beneficial third party on the basis of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

I know it. You know it. The clock is still ticking.

Believe me

 

 

[BankFodder]

Wasn't there a reply address in the email you received?

By the way there's no real need to send the response I suggested – but on the other hand no harm done either.

[BankFodder]

In that case send your reply to that email

[BankFodder]

If you had read all of the Hermes threads on the sub- forum, you would see that you should already have started by registering with the money claim website and then starting to draft your claim.

You can save your work as you go. You should certainly be ready to click off the claim as soon as your deadline expires. There's no point in making a bluff.

You should prepare a draft particulars claim and post it here. It only needs to be very short and once again you will see several examples on the Hermes threads on this sub- forum

[BankFodder]

I think you should just hold on for a little while.

Since this thread started, somebody has actually gone ahead and sued Hermes and included a claim for conversion. It wasn't defended and in fact a default judgement was obtained and Hermes paid up everything.
You should have a read of this thread. It is on the sub- forum near the top.

Secondly, there is another case which is just started – relating to a diamond engagement ring which apparently was also damaged and then destroyed. We will probably sue Hermes in conversion for that as well.

Please have a look at these two cases – although the engagement ring has only recently started – but there is a lot that you can learn from that.

 

[BankFodder]

 

Quote

Breach of contract and Conversion and breach of data protection statutory duty

The claimant used the defendants parcel delivery service on 22/09/2020 to deliver a computer chair from Bristol to an address in Tyne and Wear. Defendants reference number XXX.

The chair is valued at £120 - full details have been provided to the defendant. In breach of their contractual obligations, the defendants damaged the chair by their negligent handling and then went on to destroy it. The destruction of the chair was carried out without reference to the claimant and without any authority.

The claimant supplied the defendant with a statutory request for disclosure of personal data. The defendant failed to disclose the personal data within the statutory deadline of 30 days and exceeded the timely disclosure by two months. This caused further distress in resolving this issue. 

The claimant seeks reimbursement of £50 in the declared value of the chair plus damages for conversion not exceeding £100 plus delivery fee £29.99 plus £15 in respect of distress caused by their breach of statutory duty: Total £XXX plus interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts act 1984

 

 

 

Please check this wording and see if you are happy with it. Put in the total claim to where I have put XXX.

Please be aware that this claim is now rather complex and you must feel comfortable about dealing with it either at mediation or at a court hearing – and it is externally possible that it will go to a court hearing. This means that you will have to understand the rules about the tort of conversion. As well as the other elements included in the claim.

 

[BankFodder]

It would be best if the figures in the letter of claim match exactly those in the particulars of claim.

I think that the date for the calculation of interest should begin from the time that the chair was delivered and it was not.

You have told us before – but have they now satisfy your SAR?

 

[BankFodder]

So that's very interesting. It seemed that they misled you in the original information they gave you and it was only the SAR that revealed the damage.

This puts you in a very powerful position. Once again, it highlights the lack of integrity of this company Hermes.

[BankFodder]

Okay. Can you just remind me where we are please – there are lots of these and I'm having difficulty keeping up.

Have you sent the letter of claim? If so when is the return date so that you can issue the claim. Maybe you have done that already but I've lost track

[BankFodder]

Sorry. In that case it is my fault. I'd forgotten that you had sent the letter of claim. When I asked you to hold off, I intended that you hold off sending the letter of claim.

The particulars of claim addresses the issue of conversion – so you may as well go ahead and issue it