SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[mercyblue]

Have been watching this thread with interest (having a capstone mortgage -if we can call it that). So with regards to securitisation spml sell my mortgage (along with a load of others), This is a genuine sale with title passing to the issuer SPV (this is a direct quote from here Securitisation: basic structures: true sale/asset-backed securitisation

).

Now the original contract is still with spml they have sold the "payment rights" along with the assets. So I still might have a contract with them to pay x amount.

However and I am assuming this is what supersleuth was saying if I stop paying said contract they have no right to repossess my house because they have sold their legal interest in it to the spv.

So the spv should appear at the land registry not spml. It is amazing when it clicks you realize what is going on.

[mercyblue]

Doing a search on the uk list here UKLA - Main Issuer List doesn't find anything for eurosail???

[mercyblue]

have found what should be the correct company for myself not sure how that helps no way can get to canary wharf. But surely the fact that the insurance shows eurosail and not spml prove the fact of the sale?

[mercyblue]

I got a letter off the lender (which I don't have) saying to add eurosail blah blah it only says eurosail uk on the policy. I do however have the original letter when took out the mortgage that the policy must note SPML capital (firsts) as mortgagee.

[mercyblue]

Well I have finally found my prospectus it took some time but it can be done!

They are listed on the Irish stock exchange so looking at the uk listing is pointless.

If anyone is interested in finding theirs if you pm I should be able to give you some pointers on how to find yours.

[mercyblue]

With regard to ownership and spml. According to the prospectus spml remain the legal titleholder but grant power of attorney to the issuer (eurosail) and hence capstone as the service agent.

Supersleuth I could send you the actual text to see what you think if you want?

[mercyblue]

You wont ever be able to speak to anyone at spml in any caes they have sold you on. Capstone are appointed by the issuer (owner) to basically represent them for everything which is standard for these spv's

See also the two title.rtf attachments for ownership, the 2nd is somewhat involved.

[mercyblue]

sorry here arr the attachments

title1.rtf

title2.rtf

[mercyblue]

To demonstrate my point: in my case, the securitisation was a £600m deal in June 2006. It is now only 2.5 years since then and out of a £600 million pool of mortgages there is only £100 million of those mortgage contracts still in the pool. Thus, in only 2.5 years, they have caused £500 million of those borrowers to either redeem through re-mortgaging or be repossessed. As you know, re-mortgaging is not really an option in today's climate so anybody still with a securitised mortgage is more likely to be repossessed that not.

 

 

Certainly agree with that, reading mine and bearing in mind I am still taking it all in, that they expect to be just about fully redeemed after 3 years which would figure as they expect people to re-mortgage around the time fixed/discount rate ends. In reality I expect many of the borrowers were intending to do just that but as you point out that is hardly viable now.

[mercyblue]

no they haven't put that expressly I have used this which is what they have put

 

*Indicates an assumed constant per annum rate of prepayment of 15.00% per annum for the first year and an

assumed constant per annum rate of prepayment of 35.00% per annum for each succeeding year

 

which is of course 85% 3 years

[mercyblue]

from the prospectus and I kid you not.

 

Parent and Share Trustee: The Issuer’s entire issued share capital is held by Eurosail-UK

200x-xxx Parent Limited (the “Parent”) except for one share

held by Wilmington Trust SP Services (London) Limited (the

“Share Trustee”) as nominee of the Parent under the terms of a

share trust dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (the “Share Trust”). The

11

entire issued share capital of the Parent is held by the Share

Trustee under the terms of a trust established under English law

by a declaration of trust dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (the “Charitable

Share Trust”) for the benefit of certain charitable purposes

 

what chicanery is this??

[mercyblue]

yes spml did buy the matlock mortgages according to the prospectus.

[mercyblue]

No they are still bound by their contractual obligations set out in your terms and conditions.

[mercyblue]

As supersleuth says the correct spv will appear on the building insurance.

Would the production of the building insurance schedule not to mention the letters telling you to add them to it prove ownership?

After all you cant insure a building you have no interest in surely that would be fraud?

[mercyblue]

check the CCA? I didn't think mortgages fell under this legislation

[mercyblue]

Yes all eurosail docs are essestially the same, all use the same share trustee etc. The lehman document above refers to this

"Lehman Brothers Special Financing Inc. (whose registered

address is at 2711 Centerville Road, Suite 400, Wilmington,

Delaware, 19808, USA) will be appointed as the fixed/floating

swap counterparty (the “Fixed/Floating Swap Counterparty”,

under the terms of the Fixed/Floating Swap Agreement (as

defined in “The Fixed Floating Swap Agreement” below).

Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (the “Fixed/Floating Swap

Guarantor”) will, on or about the Closing Date, enter into a

guarantee in respect of the Fixed/Floating Swap Agreement (the

“Fixed/Floating Swap Guarantee”). The Fixed/Floating Swap

Guarantor will not be a party to the Fixed/Floating Swap

Agreement."

Their is a similar agreement for a BBR swap agreement. Basically they are trying to hedge their bets and cover their selves over changes in international rates etc indeed

 

"Each of the BBR Swap Guarantor and the Fixed/Floating Swap

Guarantor is a “Hedge Guarantor”.

 

This means that Lehman bro's should pay out on each interest date.

SPML may well have been a fully owned subsidiary of lehman's it does not matter a jot that they are bankrupt because err they have sold the loans. Don't forget the spv is a seperate ltd company. From a prospectus.

 

"Other than as provided in the Mortgage Sale Agreement (see “Title to the Mortgage Pool” below), the Issuer

and the Trustee will have no recourse to the Sellers in respect of the Loans".

 

Thats what happened when some of the loans had to be bought back because as ss said spml had lied.

 

This is a major point of this business the originator of the loans sells them on straight away hence why the "masters of the universe" claimed they had eliminated all risk. Except it turned into a massive game of pass the parcel. You just don't want to be left with the parcel now as you'll have no idea as to the real value of its contents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mercyblue]

eie I posted something ages ago (not on this thread)about eurosail been the name on the building ins - its the easiest way to find out which spv has bought you. And yes you would imagine that you would have to be the true owner to insure a property otherwise wouldn't you be guilty of er fraud if you made a claim?

As for the ratings yes they were a complete farce all just rubber stamped triple a. But just look at who was paying the ratings agency.

 

[mercyblue]

the bank charge case is scheduled for tomorrow at 10.30

[mercyblue]

GR do you have any evidence that your contract has been broken?

[mercyblue]

No actually its the opposite the money paid back goes into a barclays account, that monthly cheque has to go through a clearing bank.

[mercyblue]

eie its not a matter of been slapped down its a matter of constructive counter argument and putting a different point of view. It would be a pointless thread if everything just agreed with everything that was said.

GR I fail to see the point in why you make so much in the difference between originator and lender?

As for re-negotiating your contract on what basis do you think you can do this "performance of the contract" what do you mean by that?. I am sorry to be harsh but your post reads like "I am one side of a contract that no longer suits me so I want to arbitrarily change it to be more beneficial to myself" which clearly makes a nonsense of contract law they would all be pointless.

The only way I see forward on the contract front, which I have said before, would be to go down the road of the fact they never intended to lend you that money for 25years, in that way you would be able to nullify the contract as the other party never intended to fulfill their side of the contract. The eurosail prospectuses clearly show they expect the mortgages to be redeemed by whatever means by about 5 years if you look at the CPR rates quoted.

However you run into problems straight away as the prospectus is merely an estimate its pretty easy to say well are estimates were way out but we are still fulfilling our side of the contract, it would be very difficult to prove clear intention.

[mercyblue]

GR I am sorry for misunderstanding your wording, I entirely take your point. We know these were expected to be paid off within 5 years and that now these "investments" are pretty much worthless as no-one expected interest rates to be so low, there would never have been any expectation of the repayments falling after the fixed rate ended.

Again GR I apologize for my misinterpretation.

[mercyblue]

To get an idea of the complexity of what a tangled web has been woven listen to this

BBC World Service - Business - Lehman's administrators count the cost

I know its not 100% relevant it is interesting listening. If you don't want to listen to it all listen to it from 15 mins in that shows how shocking things had become.

[mercyblue]

I agree

[mercyblue]

ryde re your last post what stops them selling their beneficial interest?