EMC car sales of Bagshot - 30 Day Right To Reject - Vehicle Casualty Report

[Bassman74]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can help with my question.

After having purchased a vehicle last Sunday,  it is found that the automatic gearbox will not change gear properly.

 

Long story short..

03/03: Collected car from dealer.

On 2 hour drive home, the car started lurching and jolting between gearchanges.

Occasionally changes we're so severe the excessive revs caused wheelspin at highway speeds.

 

04/03: Took car to local garage.

Advised to change gearbox oil as first possible remedy.

 

05 -06/03: Autobox oil changed.

No difference.

Also found several severe engine oil leaks.

Garage supplied an engineers report advising against driving the car.

Wrote formal Right to Reject email to supplier stating displeasure with the vehicle.

 

07/03: Supplier esponds asking for casualty report from gearbox specialist.

I supply the one from my local garage.

 

08/03: Supplier now demanding a report from gearbox specialist.

Standard garage report is not good enough for them.

 

My question:

Does the supplier have a right to demand a casualty report from a gearbox specialist ?

I can't drive the car due to safety reasons along with the fact I've rejected the car already.

 

Many thanks for any help!.

George 

 

 

[Bassman74]

 

Many thanks.

The dealer is EMC car sales of Bagshot, Surrey.

 

I'm 100% willing to go in to this fully armed and to take it where it needs to go for a swift resolution.

 

I'm hopeful that it's the suppliers responsibility to collect the car.

Its complicated by the fact the car is in Kent at my work, but I'm at home in Scotland.

 

My work colleague has the keys, I have the documents.

I'm unsure as to when the car gets released.

Once the money has been transferred back to me ?

[Bassman74]

£3700 was the price paid by bank transfer for an E Class Mercedes.

I was told by the owner that they move 100 plus cars per week.

 

I'm feeling rather confident after your replies.

 I can only thank you again.

 

Is there any way I can also claim for travel costs etc?

It's been a nightmare logistically with no car as I live up beside John O Groats !

[Bassman74]

In light of your advice above, I'll just stick with claiming back for the purchase price at the moment.

And yes, I'll be starting clear of that particular marque in future. I scratched an itch that ended up being a sore !

[Bassman74]

Response from dealer today as follows.

Where do I stand.

Do I need to file a complaint with the Ombudsman prior to court proceedings ?

 

Quote

"We write further to your email of 8 March 2019.

 

1. If we go by the information provided by *** Garage Services, no fault codes were visible in the diagnostics and the car still drives. *** Garage Services advised that there is potential the issue worsens which is obvious for a ‘thirteen-year old’ car. In addition, there is no evidence that the gear box oil was replaced to Mercedes specifications which is crucial in this case.

 

2. In judging whether a recently bought ‘thirteen-year old’ car was of satisfactory quality it would be ‘reasonable’ to take account of the price you paid for the car. This could be far too less than for a new vehicle and so expectations should be lower. It would also be reasonable to assume that the performance might not be as good, and the condition could fall far short of new condition. For that reason, you have not judged in accordance with the standard and performance that was reasonable to expect in a similar car of that age, mileage and model.

 

3. We cannot agree that *** Garage Services report gives a right of rejection or rights pursuant to the consumer’s rights under the code or the CRA as being due because if you are asking for a refund under the 30 Day Right To Reject, the onus is on you to prove there is a fault, the fault is worthy of a refund and the fault was present at the time of sale.

 

4. We do not seem to be any closer to reaching an agreement. We do not believe either party will benefit from further exchanges of communications. Please register your complaint with The Motor Ombudsman: https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complaint

 

The Motor Ombudsman is a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) provider, is fully impartial and listens to both sides to deliver consistently fair outcomes. If you decide to continue with a court claim without any consideration to The Motor Ombudsman’s Alternative dispute resolution (ADR) decision, we reserve the right to a cost order against you.

 

We refer you to the PREACTION CONDUCT AND PROTOCOLS: 11. If proceedings are issued, the parties may be required by the court to provide evidence that ADR has been considered. A party’s silence in response to an invitation to participate or a refusal to participate in ADR might be considered unreasonable by the court and could lead to the court ordering that party to pay additional court costs. Yours faithfully, EMC Car Sales– Complaints"

 

[Bassman74]

I've been a bit delayed with this, as I've been home in Scotland.

 

Now back in Kent, I've had the car checked by an Automatic Gearbox Specialist, and they have confirmed the gearbox will need a £3000 rebuild after diagnosis.

 

I have the estimate for the work in my possession, and the Engineers report will be with me on Monday. 

 

I'm going in with a barrage of missiles now..

[Bassman74]

If I can get back the 3.7k that I paid for the car, I'd be content. That said, I see no reason why my inconvenience and vain attempts at repairing this machine should not be taken into account.

 

£220: gearbox oil and filter change

£300: Turbo inlet pipe ( possible cause of gearbox problems. It wasn't)

£20: Diagnostic check

 

Little point in mentioning travel costs, as it would have cost me fuel money to get home had the car been driveable I guess.

 

[Bassman74]

Not yet,

 

Should I go ahead and do this prior to receiving the Engineers Report on Monday ?

[Bassman74]

Maybe so,

 

I'll draft the letter and send it all at once. Thanks again for the help.

[Bassman74]

Thinking aloud before I send the Letter of Claim on Monday..

 

In an earlier letter, the car dealer made the following statement:

 

"Please arrange to return the vehicle to our premises for further investigation. We shall instruct a gearbox expert to confirm the casualty and liability. Alternatively, we are happy to consider another report provided that it is by a gearbox specialist"

 

Now that I have had this carried out, and will very soon have the information that they're happy to consider, should my next letter to them be threatening court action ? I have, as far as I can see, complied with their requirement thus far, and believe that I would have covered all bases in the Judge's eyes if and when court action goes ahead.

 

Surely I need to sent the conclusive engineers report to them first ? 

[Bassman74]

Ok,

 

So I think the Letter of Claim in addition to the report is the way to go. As for returning the car to them, I'm fearful that I'd lose everything if I did this.  I have also fulfilled their alternative requirement as above.

 

As per previous advice,  I'm today preparing to report them to Trading Standards via the CAB.

[Bassman74]

One thing I have just noticed as I'm printing off all correspondence just now.

 

The dealer sold me the car with a "Plan 4" warranty.

 

After having contacted the warranty company, I've had it confirmed that the car is only eligible for a "Plan 3" warranty, which covers far less obviously.

 

This is due to age and mileage of the vehicle.

I have a receipt from the dealer to prove this.

 

Am I right in saying that this alone is grounds to return the vehicle ?

  I'm 100% sure I should at least mention it in my next letter.

[Bassman74]

2 hours ago, Fred clause said:

Not after advice I have allready started my claim,

just letting savoytruffle know that thay aren't the only ones going through this with EMC car sales Bagshot and they are very similar stories.

 

Thanks Fred,

 

I doesn't surprise me that this is happening to others, and I'm very sorry to hear that you're going through the same situation as myself with the same dealer. It sounds like our cases are rather strong, so I believe that we'll be ok.

 

I'm still waiting for the engineers report from the specialist, and the wait is driving me crazy. I just want the whole sordid affair to be wrapped up and done with. One must keep ones head in these testing times I guess.

 

Do keep us updated as to your situation.

 

BR,

 

George

 

[Bassman74]

I sent this today to the dealer.

 

I'm still waiting on the gearbox report, and should have it within a few days.

I really wanted to move on it now.

 

After having contacted Autotrader ( thanks Fred ! ), it was revealed that the vehicle was not sold as described.

 

See below for details..

 

"As per your letter dated 8th March, 2019, please see attached quote for repair from a Gearbox Specialist.

 

This estimate is based on an inspection of the gearbox on the Specialists premises which took place on 20/03/19 ( after having the vehicle NM** *** taken there for inspection ).

 

It is noted that the vehicle has a major mechanical issue with the automatic gearbox, and will require nearly £3000 of remedial repair to rectify.

This has been caused by poor maintenance prior to my purchase.

 

The partial service history shows that the gearbox oil has not been replaced in nearly 120,000 miles.

An engineers report, from same facility, is forthcoming and will be forwarded to yourselves directly.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to the following points:

 

Please see attached email from Autotrader.co.uk, showing your original advert. In it, it is stated:

1 years MOT

Full Service History

Excellent Condition

The following is actually true of the vehicle:

MOT until 18/07/19

Service history until 2015

Major fault as described above

 

I was also sold a “4 Star” warranty with the vehicle. Having received the documents in the post, I have actually received a “3 Star” warranty.

 

As a supplier, you have failed to provide me with a product that is..

1.       Of reasonable quality

2.       As Described

3.       Fit for purpose

 

Please refer to my previous correspondence in regard to your legal obligations regarding this matter.

 

Please confirm by return that you will refund me, within 14 days, the full purchase price of £3700 for the vehicle and that you will arrange to collect it.

 

My next correspondence to you, not including the Gearbox Specialist report which is forthcoming directly, will be to issue a Letter of Claim, where I will add significant interest and inconvenience costs to the purchase price"

[Bassman74]

That's the Letter of Claim sent now.

It was a very brief letter, as I feel I'm in such a good position now, and don't think I need to repeat what I've already written to them.

 

But yes, my vibe is not great about this situation.

And I have noticed the multiple company names.

 

Another reason I wanted to act fast.

My two weeks at home in Scotland were torture, as I could do nothing about the situation from so far away.

 

So angry that I couldnt switch off and appreciate my family, such was the worry..

[Bassman74]

Received a letter back offering £2250 for the car. They suggested that their own engineers deemed the car to be of sound quality when it left the dealership. Absolutely no mention of the misleading advert at all..

 

I have sent notification of commencement of court action, as I have grounds enough even in absence of any specialist report. Should I still send them the engineer's report when it comes in, despite it not being required ?

[Bassman74]

Could I find myself with a problem if I haven't given them a chance to consider the forthcoming engineers report from myself ?

The Engineers are very busy and can't get the report written up at the moment.

 

Also, when you talk of their own engineers report, do you mean them carrying one out remotely ?

[Bassman74]

That's the form filled out, sent and paid. I've made a mistake on the form though. I stated the car has only 3 months MOT, when I should have written 4 months. I'm assuming that this is not a big issue ?

[Bassman74]

The MCOL Court form..

[Bassman74]

Yes it was sold with a full years MOT, as per their advert, it's only MOT'd until July.

 

I therefore should have put "only 4 months MOT,  but I put "only 3 months MOT".

 

I guess you could see that as only "3 full months MOT".

I'm likely overthinking it though..

 

My head went to thinking of three FULL months MOT, as that is pretty much what it is.

 

Many apologies. I've missed your question in all the excitement.

The engineers report is part of the diagnostic service that I used on the car.

It was only £20 for everything, so I guess I shouldn't expect a rushed response from the Engineers.

 

Especially seeing as how the car will not be repaired there, which the engineers are well aware of.

[Bassman74]

Yup. Same story here Fred. Funny that..

[Bassman74]

A wee update and a question please,

 

The defendant has been issued with a DQ form after mounting a defence. Is this something that I need to consider if I'm issued the same questionnaire?

 

I guess it helps when you investigate..

 

I've had a read of the small claims process and understand how things will develop.

 

I've also sent the engineers report from the specialist, which I've received today. £40 plus VAT, which I'll add to the final amount.

[Bassman74]

All,

 

I've been requested to fill in the N180 form. The section that says "Are you asking for the court's permission to use the written evidence of an expert?" Should I click yes to this ? I've no intention of calling up an expert to court, but I do have written evidence of one to hand.

 

Thanks

[Bassman74]

They're defending the claim, but no application for extension as yet. Their comments on the form are rather amusing, claiming little chance of success by me, and requesting the action is thrown out of court. I'm still waiting on their comments regarding  the fact the car was not sold as described though. Nevertheless, my case is strong. I'm confident, if not slightly impatient. Can't believe you've heard nothing yet Fred !

[Bassman74]

A pretty interesting and, quite frankly, unbelievable update on this case.

 

I called my local court today for an update, as I'd heard nothing for 5 weeks or so.

 

This is a copy of the mail that I just sent to the local court upon their request, as they'd like to move swiftly with my case.

 

They have been brilliant and very helpful today..

 

"Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Re: Case Reference **

 

** vs. EMC Car Sales

 

After contacting your court today for an update regarding the above case, it was brought to my attention that the case status was “Discontinued by the Claimant”.

 

I’d like to advise that I, as the claimant, have NOT applied for this case to be discontinued.

 

Indeed, the process for this would be to fill in a form, of which I did not know existed until today.

I request that this discontinuation request is removed so that the claim can continue.

 

Further investigation today by the very friendly and helpful team at has revealed that a discontinuation form had been filled in in my name and registered on 13/05/19, and that it had been signed with a signature not matching my own.

 

It is hoped that the above clarifies my position regarding this case.

Please do not hesitate to contact me in the first instance if any more information is required"