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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Tannaku v RBS


tannaku
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Sorry, but it took me a while to work out how to start a new thread.

 

Anyway. I wrote to RSB on behalf of my daughter claiming back £3,015 over the last three years. This includes £1700 in just a two month period in 2005 on a normal current account. It was because of the misery this caused her that prompted me to act

 

I have now recieved a letter rejecting this claim and indeed the OFT guideline as well. They claim that the OFT have only had discussions concerning credit cards.

 

The letter before action is winging its way to Scotland as I type.

 

Many thanks for a great site.

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  • 3 weeks later...

A rather belated update, sorry.

 

Anyway, sent a LBA on 14th November and received an offer within four days for £1775. The original claim was for £3015.

Wrote and accepted this as part payment of full amount and reminded RBS that the original timetable for court action still stood. No reply.

 

Filed at court yesterday (29th Nov)

 

Like so many before me, the butterflies are stirring but determined to see it through to the end. Omwards and upwards.

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Hi again.

I have to admit I was a little confused as to what address to use as it had to be in England or Wales so I e-mailed the courts helpline. They told me to use my local branch which is what I did.

 

Actually the info is available on here but didnt find it until later.

 

Thanks for your support

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I filed the MCOL on the 29th November and sent it to my local branch in England. Up to then, my correspondence, LBA etc had been to the address in Edinburgh.

What I would like some help with please is that I noticed on another thread that somebody was told that if letters have been going to Scotland the case could fall under the Scottish legal system which limits small claims to #750.00 going back 5 years.

Does anybody know if my case could be prejudiced because of this.

 

Many thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...

No reply to date on MCOL filed 29th Nov.

 

I am beginning to appreciate how my predecessors felt when they described their feelings whilst waiting for things to happen. Nervous but determined.

 

I just wanted to keep the thread up to date

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I have noticed on the MCOL website that RBS have acknowledged my claim on 14/12 2006.

As they have made no contact with me, am I right in thinking that they have a further 14 days to either submit a defence or settle the claim?

Can anybody reassure me that it is so far so good. It is just that because there has been no contact from the bank the doubts have started to creep in. Also, if they decide to defend, have got just 14 days left to do so or do they go back to having 28 days.

I hope this makes sense

 

Many thanks

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So far as I can see everything is going according to plan...

 

Try and find somebody elses thread at similar point to you and have a good read (there are several.)

 

The bank may or may not settle OR ammend - this seems to be another delay tactic, because if they don't reply and you apply for judgement (which you will usually get by default) THEN the bank responds with a set-aside request (usually granted it appears, because Judges like case settled on merit not by default) which gives them EVEN MORE time (another 14days I think).

 

Keep in there mate.

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Received an acknowledgedment letter today in which RBS have ticked a box to say they will defend all of the claim. Cobbets Manchester to represent them.

 

Pretty much par for the course at the moment it would seem from other posts. I am pretty much ready to put my case together should it come to court. Gosh its scary,,,lol

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INNIT!....lol

 

I've just had some good news in that my folks have offered to put up the court fees for me so I'm off to court tomorrow with paper N1's...eeek

 

Everything you need for court is in this forum too, if you get cpr part 18 request from Cobblers, there are a couple of threads with full replies for you to cut n paste, also a very good thread on creating your own cpr18 request which Cobblers REALLY don't like receiving it seems...there's also Allocation Questionaires for you to copy...

 

If and when you get any of the above to do, just post back and somebody will help you find the way.

 

All the best...Phil

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  • 3 weeks later...

OK, its finally showtime.

 

I got a letter from Cobbets today setting out something like a nine point defence and also what seems from reading the other threads, the standard request for further information and clarification pursuant to CPR Part 18.

 

From reading the other threads I was fairly confident I could manage a reply but now its here its a different ball game.

 

They pay particular attention to paragraph 3 of my Particulars of Claim in that I havnt supplied them with a copy of the list of charges as stated. I sent one to RBS with my very first letter but I have to be honest that I havnt sent one to the court yet and I was waiting to see if they defended before sending one to their solicitors. Do I say all this to Cobbets?

 

I have been studying BigCol's winning claim and his wording seems a good way forward.

 

Any advice welcome folks

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Can I trust Cobbets when they say that they have filed whatever correspondence they send to me with the Court or should I send their letters with my copys of replies? If that makes sense.

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Have now got the questionnaire from the courts - a bit quicker than I expected though.

I have answered one of my own questions because enclosed was Cobbets defence but not the Request for Further Information CPR18 thing.

 

Do I when replying to the court enclose a copy of this to show them what Cobbets are up to?

 

Anybody?

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Have now got the questionnaire from the courts - a bit quicker than I expected though.

I have answered one of my own questions because enclosed was Cobbets defence but not the Request for Further Information CPR18 thing.

 

Do I when replying to the court enclose a copy of this to show them what Cobbets are up to?

 

Anybody?

 

The courts will already have a copy of the defence. Complete the Aq and send it back to the court enclose a schedule of charges also send a copy of the scedule to cobblers.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

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Many thanks livelylad. I have now completed the questionnaire.

 

Still working on the reply to Cobbets - just trawling through the site looking for inspiration at the moment.

 

Thanks again

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Many thanks livelylad. I have now completed the questionnaire.

 

Still working on the reply to Cobbets - just trawling through the site looking for inspiration at the moment.

 

Thanks again

 

 

try these

 

Send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. + a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed with your claim to:

Letter 1 MCOL

The Court Manager,

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

Wait until you receive the Notice of Acknowledgement from the court and then send a copy to the bank’s solicitors, since they are the ones who will now be dealing with your claim

Letter 2 Solicitor

Dear Sir,

 

(Your Name) -v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my schedule of charges relating to the above claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

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Got that livelylad, many thanks.

 

Do I also need to reply to Cobbets letting them know that CPR Part 18 only applies at the Courts discretion or words to that effect as I have seen in other threads?

Also, do I need to respond to their defence as I have seen in other threads with words like "the charges laid out in the original contract are unlawful penalty charges and cannot be legally enforced" etc etc (taken from another thread)

 

I cant seem to get things clear in my head but I know I will with just a little bit more prompting.

 

Many thanks again

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Got that livelylad, many thanks.

 

Do I also need to reply to Cobbets letting them know that CPR Part 18 only applies at the Courts discretion or words to that effect as I have seen in other threads?

Also, do I need to respond to their defence as I have seen in other threads with words like "the charges laid out in the original contract are unlawful penalty charges and cannot be legally enforced" etc etc (taken from another thread)

 

I cant seem to get things clear in my head but I know I will with just a little bit more prompting.

 

Many thanks again

 

ok everything you need is in this link. I know its Natwest just amend for RBS as Cobblers serve both.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/35672-cobbetts-cpr-18-request.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/55874-letter-court-re-cpr18.html

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I have drafted this reply to Cobbets using info gleaned off livelylads thread and others. Does anybody think I am missing anything? Or even if I have said too much?

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing in response to your letter dated 2nd January 2007 which contained your Defence and a Request for Further Information and Clarification, the latter marked IMPORTANT.

 

This request for further information from me under Part 18 of the CPR also includes a deadline date for receipt of the response. I think I will leave the judge to decide on the impression the letter is intended to give.

 

As I anticipate that this claim will be allocated to the Small Claims track I must advise you that CPR Pt18 has little relevance to Small Claims procedures. However, I am aware that Part 27.2(f) applies subject to paragraph 3 of part 27.2 which states that the Court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers that it is appropriate to do so. I am more than willing to provide any further information at the Courts request.

I consider though your inquiry to be intimidating, and I intend to bring this matter to the notice of the Court.

 

You point out in your Defence that under paragraph 3 of the Particulars of Claim the Defendant has yet to receive a copy of the schedule of charges as stated. The said information was provided to your client on 31st October 2006 and the letter acknowledged by your client.

 

As you are instructed to act for the The Royal Bank of Scotland in defence of this claim, I am somewhat surprised that you have not been sent this information by them directly to enable you to defend this claim efficiently. I am enclosing details of the charges in question, the interest applied, and details of the account number and sort code. This information has also been made available to the Court.

 

 

Yours sincerely

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update.

Got a letter from Cobbets this morning making an offer of £1650.00 because they do not think we can win in court and on condition we do not reveal to third party and write to the Court withdrawing my claim etc. etc

 

Funny thing, they made me an offer of £1775.00 on the 18th November last year which I gave the standard reply to of accepting as part payment.

 

I will do the same with this but should I notify the courts of this offer? Do I perhaps send them a copy of Cobbets letter put in my court file?

 

Anybody?

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