Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Me V Swift


mrsfoot
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5473 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 146
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

When is your trial set for Gooner?

 

Quick update

 

Received letter from Sol today. They sem very happy with the Judges decision not to give me further disclosure, and quote form his decision. However i find it very strange that they have received the order and sent a letter to me before i have even received the letter from the court and i only live 5 miles from court they are 200 lol

 

They also quote from Barry Pauls case and basically "explain" that they have already won a case and no doubt wil in this one. They are offering me to withdraw with no costs. Thats so very kind of them dont you think??

Lots of other stuff in the letter, although before i can talk about it i need to get advice from others first.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit that I am totally perplexed by this case. I would not consider that a claim for more than £3.5k could be regarded as small. Whilst it is a possible argument that the information requested would require some effort and expense, it is absolutely key to your claim.

 

My only conclusion would be that the judge is trying to force this claim into court, for whtever reason. I might be wrong with that view, but it seems to go totally against the overriding objectives to effectively force the questions to be asked in court - rather than through a process that is specifically designed to reduce the length of, or indeed the need for, a trial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question:

 

I have to let sols know if i want to contiue with the claijm by 5 today. I will be sying yes i do, but there is a query. They have used Barry Pauls case as a tactic, and telling me they won this case (inc names case No and judge) and that they will win this one. I feel this is just bullying as Barry Paul said the judge had said his case was not to be used as evidence. Should i mention this in my reply?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should ask Barry Paul to do a witness statement saying just that and produce it in evidence saying that they are abusing the court procedure by using these tactics and that Judge must have had a reason and your judge is not being told the whole story

Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by mrsfoot viewpost.gif

Thanks Alan.

 

Got advice re the Solicitors Act and requesting litigation bills and because it was defendants who employed the solicitors and then charged my account for them I am not entitled to see the bill / ask for certification. But thanks anyway Bona, it was worth a try.

This is what I have been looking for

a claim under section 71(1) of the Act, by a person other than the party chargeable with the bill, for detailed assessment; I think this entitles you to see their bills

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

 

Quick update. Had email form sols they want me to call them to agree a case summary and other details. What is it they actually want from me?? Any suggestions gratefully accepted

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a draft of my case summary, appreciate any pointers!!!

 

The Claimant requested information the Defendant held using a Data Protections Act Subject Access Request. The claimant highlighted fees charged to the account. As the fees seemed excessive and punitive in nature the Claimant used the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) and found they were unenforceable in English common law.

The Defendant maintains the charges are not unlawful rather they are a genuine pre estimate of their losses due to the breaches on the contract.

Referring to UTCCR sch2 1 (e) “where a term may be unfair if the effect requires any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation” clauses in the contract between the Claimant and Defendant are therefore unenforceable. These clauses require the consumer (Claimant) to pay a disproportionate amount to the Defendant for breaches. All fees charged can be seen on the schedule of charges in this bundle.

Referring to Office Fair Trading “Calculating Fair Charges in Credit Card Contracts April 2006”

3.1 An unfair standard term is not binding on the consumer. A term is considered unfair under the UTCCR’s if:

“contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer”

3.2 The requirement of “good faith” reflects the principle of fair and open dealing with consumers. It does not simply mean that terms must not be used deceitfully

3.3 Schedule 2 to the UTCCR’s illustrates possible respects in which a term may be unfair to the consumer by means of a ‘grey list’ of possible kinds of unfairness. Of particular relevance to default charges is paragraph 1 (e) of Schedule 2, specifying that terms that have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. Therefore being charged £35 - £100 for a standard letter is unfair and therefore unlawful in accordance with UTCCR’s.

In the same report OFT also state:

1.19 ”In our view the basic principles set out here also apply to other analogous default charges in consumer contracts, for example agreements for bank overdrafts, mortgages and store card agreements”

During the correspondence the Defendant offered to reduce a default payment and sent this to the Claimant. Also sent was a refund of solicitor’s fee. This was added to the account contrary to the order of Deputy District Judge Mahy of Chester County Court, who order “the fees for today’s hearing must not be added to the security”

There have been numerous attempts on behalf of the Claimant to settle this case without the need for a hearing; however the Defendant has preferred to continue the case.

It is the claimants belief that the Defendant has acted in an unlawful manner when applying disproportionately high sums to the account when a breach occurred and respectfully seeks from the court a judgement that the charges are in fact unlawful, the return of the charges paid, interest pursuant to s.69 County Court Act and costs in accordance to CPR 48.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just little update...court date tomorrow is still on so here we go! No order for bundle from me to court or defence but have done anyway so we all on an equal footing....some mind games from defence but thanks to Hag they have not been successful in making me feel intimidated!

 

Will update thread as soon as i can tomorrow

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what I have been looking for [/i]

a claim under section 71(1) of the Act, by a person other than the party chargeable with the bill, for detailed assessment; I think this entitles you to see their bills

 

Hi Bona

 

Just a little note, the Act you refer to is from the Irish Statute book SOLICITORS (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1994 SECTION 71 according to the web and i dont think they are applicable in this case, but thank you anyway and i would be interested in finding out how you get on using it.

 

Good luck

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

issue 57 - October/November 2006

 

Worth looking at this document from the Chief Ombudsman regarding the bank disclosing its costs. In particular the penultimate paragraph contains these words:

 

"But for certain charges, the law on contract variations and penalties demands a reasonable relation between cost and price, and requires those who seek to justify the price to produce evidence of their actual costs."

  • Haha 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all

 

thanks Alan, i have that article ready. Even if i do say so myself, my closing summary is FAB and have included it in that.

 

All i can say is im hopeful but not over confident, as its very easy to get carried away, however a nice point to bear in mind is the defence have NOT dislcosed any case / law / regs even though they have quoted plenty in their skeleton argument, so when they start quoting im going to be rejecting on the base it was not dislcosed to me in accordance with the order ;) so all they have disclosed are the correspondance from the start of the claim and the mortgage application stuff whe we took the loan out.

 

will update as soon as possible

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Update

 

Arrived in court early and waited for the defence to arrive. 20 mins early the DJ called us into his oofice for a pre trial meet. there were his comments:

 

1. DJ felt embarassed that the laim had not been settled before today and had resulted in this court hearing

2. DJ has had 200-300 similar cases with banks for charges of a "penal inclination" (his words not mine) and none had ended with a trial

3. DJ felt it needed to be adjourned on the rounds that he was not up to date with the case law stated in the claim. He felt this would disadvantage both parties. Barrister stated at this point he felt the claim would take "no more than 2 hours to decide"

4. DJ suggested to both parties the claim be transferred to multi track. He also suggested a commercial judge would be better to hear it and suggested a Judge Chambers QC who sits in Chester to take the case. He then asked for some time to decide the course of action and to make some calls.

On return the DJ asked me was it ok to take direction from the barrister and he would relay anything that i wasnt ok with and only make it a direction once i fully understood. The following happened:

1. The Defence asked for the claim to be struck out on the grounds the MrFoot was not a party. They stated as we were both liable for the debt we were both entitled to any sum of money arising from it. As MrFoot hd not been on any claim they felt this was not correct. DJ looked directly at me and OH and said "would MrFoot mind being a prty to the claim" to which he said no, i dont mind. The look on the barristers face as he had not been told by his team mrfoot was there as my mckenzie friend was priceless and so this failed.

2. The defence then stated they would prefer the claim to be heard in multi track on the grounds that it would mean a longer time to digest the info. I then said that I had suggested small claim and the D had requested fast track. I felt it was nfair for me not to have the safety barrier of fast track with regards to cost. The barrister than said it would be necessary to be multi so it could take the full day and a half. I argued he had said no more than 15 mins ago that this case would take no more than 2 hour and yet noe he wanted a day and a half (obviously he wanted multi so more costs). The Dj agreed and between the lines suggested the barrister had contradicted himself and that the case would stay in fast track in order for me to have some protection.

3. I explained i had asked for further info (report used in barry paul case) where their witness stated that this report showed there was no profit from swift advances with regards to the charges as the analysis they hhad completed showed a parity. I explained this had been refused. The DJ then said it seemed it was a very imprtant doc and that it should have been disclosed. I explained that the paul v swift case had relied heavily on it and in fact this was what BP lost the case on....they had the DJ summary in bundle. I stated it was used in the sworn witness statement as well as the defence. The DJ agreed that it should be disclosed....and was about to write the order when the Barrister was interrupted by solicitor and manager of swift. A little conference occurred and it was explained this report was not actually based on figures from swift advances but was from swift 1st. The Defence was not happy at all!

4. The barrister told the DJ that i was about to bring another case for ERC, (this was told when the DJ was mentioning wasting courts time) i went on to explain that at allocation it was made very clear that i would not be starting any action for ERC. again the barrister loked shocked and not impressed.

Result is the case is being transferred to commercial Judge in Chester and staying on fast track. the bundles are going to be merged (mine into theirs for simplicity) and I have to send to them the info i was relying on that they did not have. I will of course check the new file they send against the old bundle for any changes that may have occurred.

I am very happy with this....although i would have liked to bring this to a close. The date for the final hearing has not been decided. But i feel more confident now than before.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Been readin you thread will interest, hoping to take on swift in the enxt few weeks for charges and erc. Hope the bubbly went down well, congrats on the small victory, heres to the war!

All advice :p is given purely from personal experiences :mad: . If you are in doubt you should always seek legal / financial advice;) .

If i have helped in any way please let me know via personal message, IM in aol or clicking on my scales :D go on you know you want to really!!

 

 

Halifax Claim

Data Protection Act: 20/06/06,

LBA: 11/07/06,

N1: 7/8/06,

Paid in full 25/8/06

 

Swift Claim

Data Protection Act: 5/8/06,

Request for Payment 19/8/06,

LBA 4/9/06

Sod off response with paltry offer (accepted as part payment) 22/09/06

N1 filed 25/09/06, deemed served 11/10/06

No part payment recieved to date

 

 

GMAC Claim

Data Protection Act 21/08/06

Request for Payment 11/09/06

LBA 25/09/06

N1 Filed 11/10/06, deemed served 19/10/06

 

Welcome

Data Protection Act 11/09/06

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...